Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The Jays are owned by a publically traded company. That's why they are run like a corporation.

Not to mention if a company has a 150m budget and they go over by 20m (13%+), those in charge of spending the money will no longer have jobs. Blaming a team for having a budget has to be one of the stupidest stances a person can take.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The Jays are owned by a publically traded company. That's why they are run like a corporation.

And as a fan this annoys me ! I am not taking about as an investor, or whether it makes sense to maximize profits.

As a fan you want your team to win. You accept budget constraints.

However when the corporation is using the baseball teams revenue to offset their bad hockey investment, yes it annoys me.

When most other teams are owned as toys and status symbols, being run by a corporation leads to exactly what had occurred in Toronto. 25 years without playoffs. And then when they finally start to be successful they don't exactly open the purse.

They want to suck one or two more years out of the cash cow run to help their balance sheets and then hopefully hockey will rebound and some Canadian teams can make the playoffs so they can continue to hit their profit targets as a company .

Again, I am not ignorant of this fact , or don't get it . But it sucks to be a fan of a team owned by a corporation who needs to report to a board and shareholders

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Not to mention if a company has a 150m budget and they go over by 20m (13%+), those in charge of spending the money will no longer have jobs. Blaming a team for having a budget has to be one of the stupidest stances a person can take.

So if the Jays set a 75 million budget you stance would be " well they set a budget?"

I never said once I have a problem with Atkins. I have a problem with the organization setting an arbitrarily low budget to use profits to raise they balance sheet profit of an entire organization

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Travis
Donaldson
Bautista
Morales
Pearce
Tulo
Martin
Upton/???
Pillar

Still a pretty fearsome batting order. Lotta thunder in those bats.

It's a decent lineup, important question for 2017 can the Jay's stay healthy?

Jay's are an old team....

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

And as a fan this annoys me ! I am not taking about as an investor, or whether it makes sense to maximize profits.

As a fan you want your team to win. You accept budget constraints.

However when the corporation is using the baseball teams revenue to offset their bad hockey investment, yes it annoys me.

When most other teams are owned as toys and status symbols, being run by a corporation leads to exactly what had occurred in Toronto. 25 years without playoffs. And then when they finally start to be successful they don't exactly open the purse.

They want to suck one or two more years out of the cash cow run to help their balance sheets and then hopefully hockey will rebound and some Canadian teams can make the playoffs so they can continue to hit their profit targets as a company .

Again, I am not ignorant of this fact , or don't get it . But it sucks to be a fan of a team owned by a corporation who needs to report to a board and shareholders

I guess I feel your anger is misplaced.
I direct my anger towards MLB how allow there to be such a competitive disparity when it comes to approach. I would dispute that most teams are run as a toy - at least to the magnitude that only a handful are: Yankees, Boston, Dodgers, etc. Most teams are managed on a budget.
Those top major market teams are put in a very advantageous position and they use it very well. And MLB doesn't care because those markets drive the league.
I don't blame Rogers as I believe they are operating the team in a responsible manner.
More than that if this is the thing you are frustrated with - it isn't going to change! You are going to be bashing your head against the wall.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

So if the Jays set a 75 million budget you stance would be " well they set a budget?"

I never said once I have a problem with Atkins. I have a problem with the organization setting an arbitrarily low budget to use profits to raise they balance sheet profit of an entire organization

If it was the difference between having a team and not having a team, yeah I would say that as any intelligent person would. Any sports team is a business and if you run in the red for too long, you will fold. It's really that simple.

[Jason14h]

If it was the difference between having a team and not having a team, yeah I would say that as any intelligent person would. Any sports team is a business and if you run in the red for too long, you will fold. It's really that simple.

But it's not. Why are you talking in hypatheticals? The Jays aren't loosing money. They are subsidizing their hockey investment with the Raptors and Jays.

Raptors fans will start the feel the same way if they are not willing to pay the luxury tax to add 1 more piece and seriously contented in the next few years.

How would you feel if the Flames ran a budget 10 million under the cap this year because the owners Oil businesses were not doing as well and they wanted to balance them out. That wouldn't annoy you?

[Jason14h]

I don't blame Rogers as I believe they are operating the team in a responsible manner.
More than that if this is the thing you are frustrated with - it isn't going to change! You are going to be bashing your head against the wall.

You are correct it isn't going to change under Rogers. Because the execs need to ensure they hit their profit targets to get their full compensation, and made a terrible investment in hockey (at least in 2016 with all Canadian teams missing playoffs)

Again, this isn't Rogers is setting an operating budget to match their baseball revenues. They are pocketing a massive amount of cash in 2016.

I guess we can wait until their financials come out in a few months, but even then they mix sports revenue into 1 bucket (Plus increased add revenue for Jays games, etc) so it's difficult to know exactly where the $$ comes from/how much Jays actually bring in. And they don't disguise it because they are operating the Jays on a budget that matches their revenue.

[Roof-Daddy]

The Blue Jays had a top ten payroll the last two seasons and were a playoff team both years with a legit chance at winning a World Series.

They are also projected to be top ten in payroll again this year.

Nothing wrong with that.

Just because they make huge profits doesn't mean they should feel obligated to dole out 10's of millions more dollars. They do enough. It's up to management to take a top 1/3 payroll and make that team competitive.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I guess I feel your anger is misplaced.
I direct my anger towards MLB how allow there to be such a competitive disparity when it comes to approach. I would dispute that most teams are run as a toy - at least to the magnitude that only a handful are: Yankees, Boston, Dodgers, etc. Most teams are managed on a budget.
Those top major market teams are put in a very advantageous position and they use it very well. And MLB doesn't care because those markets drive the league.
I don't blame Rogers as I believe they are operating the team in a responsible manner.
More than that if this is the thing you are frustrated with - it isn't going to change! You are going to be bashing your head against the wall.

I agree with these thoughts. And at the end of the day, the Jays will be spending almost $220 million CDN on player salaries this season.

[TheAlpineOracle]

The Jays are reporting profits even without their tv contract revenue. The biggest source of revenue for all major league teams are their tv contracts. It's the reason why the Arizona Diamondbacks can go all in on people like Greinke.

Rogers pushes all of their tv contract revenue out of the sports reporting entity. I think the amount of money they make would probably shock all of us if we actually knew the true amount The fact that they can't add an additional 10M to fix a problem in a go for it year is a joke. MLB and the MLBPA have both expressed concerns about the way the Jays report their baseball revenue, though we'll never get wind of it in the Canadian media. I listened to a pretty interesting segment on it on ESPN radio a couple of months ago.

This whole "spending like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers" argument is BS. No one is expecting them to spend like those teams, but most fans would suggest that being able to go above the budget by some amount in good years should not be an issue. The fact that the Jays have to wait until the trade deadline to address a glaring issue because they can't exceed budget by say 10M is a huge knock on the organization. I could understand if the team wasn't a contender, I don't understand it when they are.

When ESPN and agents are saying the Jays aren't serious in contending, it's not because they don't have a 210M payroll each year, it's because they are a big market team that is raking in the money that outright refuses to even stray from budget the one time every ten years they have a chance to win it all.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

I agree with these thoughts. And at the end of the day, the Jays will be spending almost $220 million CDN on player salaries this season.

The whole CDN/USD thing for the Jays is a little overblown. Last year I believe the Jays had the 5th highest average ticket prices in MLB even when converting the CDN price to USD. Can't find that link right now, but will keep trying.

In the meantime, here is some stats in USD (not sure how legit they are) that measure the cost of two people to attend a ball game in each park in MLB. The Jays are the 4th most expensive team ($.02 behind the Yankees). Click on graphic 31. Having spent $19 dollars for a small hot dog and a beer there last year, i'm assuming the stats are pretty accurate based on other stadiums i've been to.

https://www.gobankingrates.com/perso...baseball-game/

[Tyler]

You gotta also remember the Jays are prepping for a $200M+ reno to SkyDome soon. Perhaps that's why they don't want to toss around an extra $10-20M a year.

[JiriHrdina]

I love that one of the proof points is agents complaining they are not spending enough. There's an objective group to talk about salaries!

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I love that one of the proof points is agents complaining they are not spending enough. There's an objective group to talk about salaries!

So ESPN and other credible MLB sources have reported this offseason that the image around baseball is that the Jays are cheap and not committed to winning, but because agents also say and have so for years that it is has no merit?

[JiriHrdina]

No I would not look at agents as a reliable source of any insight on this topic. They have one goal which is to pressure teams to spend more.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

No I would not look at agents as a reliable source of any insight on this topic. They have one goal which is to pressure teams to spend more.

I would agree on the agents, but ESPN and other MLB Media are now the ones pushing that agenda. What's their motivation for saying such things?

[TheAlpineOracle]

And on a baseball subject, what are people's thoughts on Russ Martin playing SS at the WBC? Not going to lie i'm biased because I wish there were no Jays playing in the WBC, but him playing SS scares me a little. Seems like a position where you could injure yourself quite easily if you aren't used to making those movements.

The Jays need Martin healthy. I don't think he gets enough credit for what he brings to this team. The guy could be batting .200 for all I care. He seems to turn a 50M pitching staff into a 90M pitching staff year after year regardless of what team he is on.

[puffnstuff]

He's the best option for Canada at shortstop. Wow. That cant be good.

[Roof-Daddy]

So I may be wrong, but I don't see a lot more happening with the Jays roster this off season now.

The bullpen obviously looks pretty weak on paper, but as we saw last year that can be shored up rather quickly and cheaply if need be. Plus, for the next "Biagini" to step up there has to be opportunity, and as it stands now there should be plenty of that to go around.

They may sign a lefty reliever still, but it seems like they are looking to give an opportunity for guys to step up and force their way in there as a legitimate lefty reliever. Loup will be back, plus they signed Oberholtzer, House and Beliveau this off season. All guys who've bounced around but shown flashes in the past. There is also lefty's like Dermody and Girodo kicking around, not to mention the Jays FO seem to be high on young guys like Borucki and Perdomo, who should be years out still but you never know when a young guy might step up into a bull pen role.

Also, the corner outfield doesn't look great with Joey Bats looking to be the full time RF, and some sort of mish mash of Upton/Carrera/Pompey/Pearce out in LF, but that too can be shored up during the season if the players aren't getting it done and no one steps up. Who knows, maybe one of Gurriel, Alford or Ramirez light up spring training and make their way into a platoon spot in the Jays LF from the get go, or as a mid season call up.

Hard to believe we're only 2 months ~ out from spring training already.