Westworld: New original HBO series

[GGG]

Originally Posted by blankall

Don't know what everyone on this forum seems to have against this theory. If anything, tonight's episode really supported the theory. We saw William kill multiple hosts and engage physically with Delores. Could be his descent into becoming the MIB.

Edit: We also found out that Logan's family company, the one William works for and is marrying into, is considering buying the park. This would explain the MIB's special privileges in the park.

This could all be a red herring, but there was nothing in the episode to indicate the theory should be "put down".

What breaks it down though is that MIB was in the park when the insides were robots instead of wetware. So have we seen robots gutted in the Whitehat era?

I find the fact that his company is looking at buying it, his relationship with Delores and the distinct lack of placing them in the same timeline lends credibility to the concept that they aren't in the same
Time period.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by GGG

What breaks it down though is that MIB was in the park when the insides were robots instead of wetware. So have we seen robots gutted in the Whitehat era?

I find the fact that his company is looking at buying it, his relationship with Delores and the distinct lack of placing them in the same timeline lends credibility to the concept that they aren't in the same
Time period.

But if they are not in the same time period certain things have to be accepted.

Are we spoilering in here? I don't know. Anyway

Spoiler!

You have to accept that Delores never finds or completes the maze and also she has her memory wiped clean again, resetting all of the breakthroughs she has made in the McPoyle story. Remember she hadn't made it past basic programming the first time we saw her interact with MIB right? She was as basic as can be and now she's shooting dudes and thinking on her own. This is not the character we saw in episode one interacting with sad sack Cyclops and MIB. The Lawrence angle with him reappearing and having the same backstory as we heard for the prison break Lawrence seems to be leaning to the young MIB McPoyle theory but that feels like a swerve. Who knows, mayhaps I'm way off but the Delores thing seems to be a pretty hard no unless you think there's a massive uprising or something and it all goes back to normal and MIB is back again in the way far away future.

[polak]

Originally Posted by blankall

I assumed it was the MIB who'd put the device there. He has both a knowledge of the Hosts' anatomy and a penchant for slicing them up. He is also clearly some ultra rich/powerful guy outside of the game so would have access to all sorts of technology. He's also constantly trying to learn new things about the game. Seems like a likely candidate.

It could also have been someone (even the MIB) bribing one of the technicians. The technicians don't seem like the most moral and focused group.

I really hope its not Arnold who turns out to still be alive.

[V]

I thought this was leading to a big uprising in the McPoyle timeline, which Ford then has to do a hard reset of some sort.

I don't know, I can't shake the timeline theory.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by V

I thought this was leading to a big uprising in the McPoyle timeline, which Ford then has to do a hard reset of some sort.

I don't know, I can't shake the timeline theory.

It's at the point now where if we don't have multiple timelines, they are definitely misleading us into believing that. Too many subtle clues, like old logos. When 99% of your actors are playing characters that don't age, it's pretty easy to mess with the audience.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by polak

I really hope its not Arnold who turns out to still be alive.

My theory is that Arnold found a way to move his consciousness into the machines. That's what's in the maze. The maze is either a prison or a security barrier for Arnold.

The MIB is searching for it, because he wants to cheat death by moving out of his aging body and into a machine.

[DuffMan]

I thought Arnold entered Maeve at the end there where the bodyshop guy programmed the bird to come to life.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

But if they are not in the same time period certain things have to be accepted.

Are we spoilering in here? I don't know. Anyway

Spoiler!

You have to accept that Delores never finds or completes the maze and also she has her memory wiped clean again, resetting all of the breakthroughs she has made in the McPoyle story. Remember she hadn't made it past basic programming the first time we saw her interact with MIB right? She was as basic as can be and now she's shooting dudes and thinking on her own. This is not the character we saw in episode one interacting with sad sack Cyclops and MIB. The Lawrence angle with him reappearing and having the same backstory as we heard for the prison break Lawrence seems to be leaning to the young MIB McPoyle theory but that feels like a swerve. Who knows, mayhaps I'm way off but the Delores thing seems to be a pretty hard no unless you think there's a massive uprising or something and it all goes back to normal and MIB is back again in the way far away future.

I might be reading into things too much but the Ford / Delores conversations in 35 AA (after Arnold) has Ford asking Delores if you are leaving your loop Again. We know she has been around since year 0 so either that implies she had something to do with Arnolds death or there is an intermediate timeline.

[corporatejay]

This show is kind of terrible. Purposely misleading your audience to make your show seem mysterious is lame and lazy.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

In what way have they purposely misled the audience? This is all speculation.

[polak]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

This show is kind of terrible. Purposely misleading your audience to make your show seem mysterious is lame and lazy.

I'd be disappointed if the timeline theory is true (unless it's done well in the next few episodes) but I'll take this over being spoon fed any day of the week.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

This show is kind of terrible. Purposely misleading your audience to make your show seem mysterious is lame and lazy.

I honestly don't know how anyone organically came up with the separate timeline theory. (EDIT: now I remember, someone spotted two different Westworld logos when William came to the park)

I don't think the show is doing anything to mislead the audience. The audience is doing it to themselves. Couple looks on Reddit and it's just a circle **** of people trying to come up with crazy theories - it detracts from the overall storyline and the great job the writers are doing with the characters.

Considering the theory, I think the show is building to Delores (and William) meeting the MiB in the maze which means they are in the same timeline (but are they?)

there is also this: http://news.nationalpost.com/arts/te...ay-to-watch-tv

[Cecil Terwilliger]

^^that article is bang on.

I'll revert back to my comparison with True Detective season 1.

The show may be actually about its character driven plot, themes of humanity and entertainment and a major mind #### twist but when all people care about is shocking twists like TWD and wild mysteries like Lost, they are gonna be disappointed if the payoff isn't some huge reveal.

Partly it’s that whatever cleverness you may feel at guessing the ending surely must be diminished when there are thousands of potentials floating in the ether, a few surely right just by random. But more to the point, it seems to reduce the wild expanse of narrative to essentially a Rubik’s cube, something to just be turned around and futzed with until every side is duly monochromatic.

That’s doubly a shame for a show like Westworld which is asking questions about humanity and posing any number of other straight and metafictional questions and problems: what drives us, what we want out of our entertainment or each other. Rather than grapple with that – perhaps turn inwards and actually allow ourselves to be affected by a piece of art – a lot of us are left just trying to solve it, no greater thrill or insight, apparently, than learning a new way to untie knots.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

This show is kind of terrible. Purposely misleading your audience to make your show seem mysterious is lame and lazy.

It's a show where the majority of the cast is ageless and not human, but can perfectly emulate humanity.

I think the show has done a great job of making it enough of a mind-f that it stays interesting on a few different levels.

I also wouldn't accuse them of misleading at all (although I did use that word). They've just succeeded at creating the atmosphere where the line between humanity and the robots are blurred, which is automatically going to lend itself to speculation from the audience.

With Nolan and Abrahms involved, you never really know if there will be crazy twists or not. People forget that before Lost got all stupid, with time travel and evil/good spirits, most of the mysteries were initially resolved by common sense. So Westworld could just be what it is on its face. Maybe the maze is just a way out of the park.

Quite frankly I find this speculation a lot more interesting than constant guessing about who is and who is not human.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

This show is kind of terrible. Purposely misleading your audience to make your show seem mysterious is lame and lazy.

I think I agree. If you really think about what's going on, well hardly anything at all. And does anyone really care what happens? I sorta care about Delores but not really, everyone else if they get blown up or shot won't bother me in the slightest.

Also I really dislike the interior set designs, so stale. And how many times are we going to see a synth in the prep area being questioned, yea we get it they are treated like nothing more than a machine and they can't remember ####, stop beating us over the head with this.

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

In what way have they purposely misled the audience? This is all speculation.

I think they are intentionally dropping in some ambiguity and red herrings. I think they are trying to confuse the audience about the time loops a bit, so that we become a little lost in the plot, just like the bots. We will have to wait and see if any sort of upcoming reveal will make it worth it. I'm lowering my expectations a bit. I don't expect any big late season reveal will be all that satisfactory, especially when we are all speculating and waiting for it.

I really don't think that there is a 30 year gap between events depicted on the show. Early on we learned that early bots were a lot more mechanical and less convincing. We also learned that they change up the stories frequently. We have seen MIB and William interact with Delores as she is acting out the exact same story. So I assume that at a minimum, the events are all within a couple of years. I have resigned that they may not depict the same day/week as suggested by order the scenes are presented to the audience. But if they 'drop the bomb' that William is in the park 30 years prior, that just doesn't follow from the other exposition, and I'd be disappointed I'd watched a show that was so sloppy.

Originally Posted by blankall

My theory is that Arnold found a way to move his consciousness into the machines. That's what's in the maze. The maze is either a prison or a security barrier for Arnold.

The MIB is searching for it, because he wants to cheat death by moving out of his aging body and into a machine.

I think that is exactly it. In this past episode, Ford hints that the MIB has some anxiety about finding the centre of the maze quickly. And it was suggested that MIB is super rich. If anyone could afford to upload his consciousness to a host, he can.

[GGG]

When did Delos buy Westworld? Do we know that.

For me I care about Maeve, Delores, MIB, Ford, Bernard, and Whitehat. So 3 bots and 3 humans. I think that the gen 1 robots weren't as bad as people assume. In this episode Ford talks to what I assume is that Gen 1 prospector type guy and his response are chat botish nothing from the Rest of him would give him away as a gen 1.

We also know that Delores is an upgraded gen 1 either transferring her consciousness through various bodies or by upgrading her body.

I don't think I'll be disappointed without a big reveal. What will be disappointing is what's at the Center of the maze. That's better left as a Mcguffin. I like the Whitehat is MIB because it would show a huge transition of character from where he started to what he became driven by some event. That dynamic Journey would be interesting to explore.

[getbak]

Based on the preview, it looks like Dolores and the MIB will come face-to-face on this week's episode. So, that will either put the whole William=MIB theory to rest, or they'll shoot/edit the whole thing to keep it ambiguous.


One thing to note is that they shut down production for two months after this upcoming episode and used that time to not only finish the scripts for the rest of this season, but to also map out a plan for the rest of the series (5 or 6 total seasons). I haven't heard if they retroactively changed any of the previous episodes in the process.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's a show where the majority of the cast is ageless and not human, but can perfectly emulate humanity.

I think the show has done a great job of making it enough of a mind-f that it stays interesting on a few different levels.

I also wouldn't accuse them of misleading at all (although I did use that word). They've just succeeded at creating the atmosphere where the line between humanity and the robots are blurred, which is automatically going to lend itself to speculation from the audience.

With Nolan and Abrahms involved, you never really know if there will be crazy twists or not. People forget that before Lost got all stupid, with time travel and evil/good spirits, most of the mysteries were initially resolved by common sense. So Westworld could just be what it is on its face. Maybe the maze is just a way out of the park.

Quite frankly I find this speculation a lot more interesting than constant guessing about who is and who is not human.

The show has a good premise, good cast and the beginnings of interesting themes, but instead of exploring those it just has us guessing what the #### is going on all the time.

Conversely, True Detective had all the mystery but the characters themselves were compelling and that's ultimately what kept me coming back week after week.

Compare this to Stranger Things, where there was a tonne of mystery but the show had 3 dimensional characters you cared about.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I mean, I care about and am deeply interested in Ford, the MIB and certainly Dolores, at least. And we're only a couple of episodes in.