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Old 06-12-2017, 01:25 PM   #41
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How is this a question after all the Murray and MAF talk the last year haha.
I'm in the process of brushing up on the Expansion Draft rules, but really, the thing is Murray is obviously the goalie they want to keep and they want to get rid of Fleury because of his cap hit and that they're going with Murray.

It doesnt necessarily mean they had to choose between them because if MAF doesnt waive then they have to protect him, but I wasnt sure of Murray's status.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:26 PM   #42
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Is Murray even exposable? Hes still a rookie isnt he?
His ELC expires this year therefore he fits this:

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Player Exposure Requirements

iii) One goaltender who is under contract in 2017-18 or will be a restricted free agent at the expiration of his current contract immediately prior to 2017-18.
They have to expose one of Fleury or Murray and if Fleury didn't waive his NMC they have to protect him.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:29 PM   #43
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huh?
and how many played through to the cup final, eventually winning with the team he's been with for 15 years knowing he'd be gone to an expansion team weeks later..??
its pretty obvious why Maf's situation was unique.
He is just being exposed in the expansion draft like tons of other players in the league will be. He hasn't been traded yet.

I don't see his situation as all that unique. And I am not belittling the effect of moving can have on these guys but I am quite certain there are many players in the league with bigger issues in their personal lives. Just seemed weird to highlight how hard it must have been for him to play through that.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:33 PM   #44
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I am glad that Fleury is not wanting to come to Calgary. I firmly believe that if the Penguins had a competent starter this past decade that they would have 6 or 7 cups since 2008. So many years the Penguins got tossed in round one or two because of him.

Worst goalie with three cups that I can remember.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:34 PM   #45
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Right, but what constitutes a 'Pro-Season?'

Hes only played ~100 NHL games over 2 years including playoffs and around ~70 AHL Games.

Great goalie, but he doesnt play much.
10 or more professional games played in a single season while under an NHL contract.

That's why Shinkaruk and Poirier are eligible for the expansion draft but Gillies is exempt even though they still have a year remaining on their ELCs but Gillies' ELC is done.

Another odd case: Korpisalo played most of the 2014-15 season in Finland but he's still eligible for the expansion draft because he was under contract to Columbus during that season.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:34 PM   #46
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I am glad that Fleury is not wanting to come to Calgary. I firmly believe that if the Penguins had a competent starter this past decade that they would have 6 or 7 cups since 2008. So many years the Penguins got tossed in round one or two because of him.

Worst goalie with three cups that I can remember.
Chris Osgood?
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:35 PM   #47
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If MAF doesn't want to come here over Vegas it just says he doesn't care about winning anymore and is only in it for the paycheck

in that case we don't want him anyway
No need to be spiteful.

Face it, Calgary is not a great destination for an established goaltender. Enormous media pressure and a team with a history of churning through a couple goalies a season and spitting them out again.

In Vegas Fleury will be the face of the team, he'll be a guaranteed starter, a leader on the team, and his family will live somewhere warm and comfortable. Travel will be easier too. And it doesn't sound like LV plan to tank.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:36 PM   #48
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Chris Osgood?
I'd easily take Osgood. He was at least an okay goalie that didn't have mental breakdowns under pressure like Fleury. We thought Elliott was bad for this during this year, Fleury has done this pretty much his entire career. The only goalie I'd take Elliott over right now is Fleury and I do not want Elliott back either.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:47 PM   #49
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I wouldn't look too much into Fleury's no-trade list and the fact the Flames are on it. In fact, I kind of expected it... and here is why.

I was listening to McGuire's podcast and he said that lots of guys with partial or full No Movement Clauses will put down teams on their 'approved to be traded too' list that they know they will never be traded too.

For example, Fleury would likely put down teams like Washington (Holtby), Montreal (Price), Toronto (Anderson), LA (Quick), Ana (Jones) etc. on his approved list banking on the fact that he would never be traded to those teams because they already have #1 goalies (or for other reasons).

By doing this... Fleury essentially holds all the cards and will dictate where he goes. He has waived his NMC for Vegas only, but that does not mean that Vegas isn't having other conversations with teams seeing what they can get for Fleury after they select him in the expansion draft.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:49 PM   #50
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not surprised; this was the rumored process all along...

people that thought the Pens would keep a 32 year old MAF over a 24 year old that has won a stanley cup (2 if you included the shortened play in this year's playoffs) were deluding themselves.

IMO, it seems like Calgary's choices are boiling down to Raanta, Grubauer, Mason, Halak and Elliot... maybe Picard as well....

we'll see i guess...
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:53 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by smalltownref View Post
I wouldn't look too much into Fleury's no-trade list and the fact the Flames are on it. In fact, I kind of expected it... and here is why.

I was listening to McGuire's podcast and he said that lots of guys with partial or full No Movement Clauses will put down teams on their 'approved to be traded too' list that they know they will never be traded too.

For example, Fleury would likely put down teams like Washington (Holtby), Montreal (Price), Toronto (Anderson), LA (Quick), Ana (Jones) etc. on his approved list banking on the fact that he would never be traded to those teams because they already have #1 goalies (or for other reasons).

By doing this... Fleury essentially holds all the cards and will dictate where he goes. He has waived his NMC for Vegas only, but that does not mean that Vegas isn't having other conversations with teams seeing what they can get for Fleury after they select him in the expansion draft.
He would still need to waive and want to go there.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:55 PM   #52
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not surprised; this was the rumored process all along...

people that thought the Pens would keep a 32 year old MAF over a 24 year old that has won a stanley cup (2 if you included the shortened play in this year's playoffs) were deluding themselves.

IMO, it seems like Calgary's choices are boiling down to Raanta, Grubauer, Mason, Halak and Elliot... maybe Picard as well....

we'll see i guess...
Well....yeah, theres that, but theres also the fact that when you have the Heir Apparent the older, more expensive guy has to go.

Theres a Salary Cap afterall.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:56 PM   #53
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He would still need to waive and want to go there.
Very true... but Vegas can easily ask him to waive as well, just like Pitts did. If Vegas thinks that they can get a greater depth of assets by trading Fleury, they will definitely try too. Fleury will have the final say though.

Friedman on the radio this morning was saying that he has a hard time believing that Vegas will be the final destination for Fleury FWIW.
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:56 PM   #54
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This could be a move similar to Luongo - had a decent run now willing to play out the rest of his career as the starter for a lower end team in a good location
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Old 06-12-2017, 01:59 PM   #55
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Its been brought up but I also think it would be funny for MAF to find his way to Philly via Vegas.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:00 PM   #56
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He would still need to waive and want to go there.
This is what I assume as well, but...

IIRC, when a player waives his NTC, the team that obtained him during a trade isn't required to continue with the NTC - meaning that the NTC comes completely off his contract. I believe this was the case. Most teams end up honoring it and include it back into the contract.

With expansion, I am not sure how this works. Fleury waived it for Vegas only, but does it become void automatically now as it would through a trade? If Vegas is merely acting on a cut-throat asset accumulation, and don't intend for Fleury to play for their organization, they do not have to show any goodwill and have the NTC placed back into the contract.

Anyone know for sure if I am right on the NTC being automatically removed after a trade (I am pretty sure I am, but not 100% sure here). IF I am right, does the NTC come off after the expansion draft as well?

I am curious myself.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:02 PM   #57
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They keep it as long as the NTC or NMC has kicked in already on the contract. If it has not kicked in already (ala Subban trade last year) they don't have to honour it.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:04 PM   #58
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This is what I assume as well, but...

IIRC, when a player waives his NTC, the team that obtained him during a trade isn't required to continue with the NTC - meaning that the NTC comes completely off his contract. I believe this was the case. Most teams end up honoring it and include it back into the contract.

With expansion, I am not sure how this works. Fleury waived it for Vegas only, but does it become void automatically now as it would through a trade? If Vegas is merely acting on a cut-throat asset accumulation, and don't intend for Fleury to play for their organization, they do not have to show any goodwill and have the NTC placed back into the contract.

Anyone know for sure if I am right on the NTC being automatically removed after a trade (I am pretty sure I am, but not 100% sure here). IF I am right, does the NTC come off after the expansion draft as well?

I am curious myself.
Even if it worked that way you wouldn't want to get him in that situation.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:04 PM   #59
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Very true... but Vegas can easily ask him to waive as well, just like Pitts did. If Vegas thinks that they can get a greater depth of assets by trading Fleury, they will definitely try too. Fleury will have the final say though.

Friedman on the radio this morning was saying that he has a hard time believing that Vegas will be the final destination for Fleury FWIW.
Vegas should pick someone else off the Penguins and then go back to them after and make a low-ball trade offer for Fleury. Fleury already know he isn't in the plans and the Pens could use the cap space and it sounds like Vegas is the only team he waived for so far anyway.
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:07 PM   #60
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It's nice of Fleury for doing the Penguins a solid by waiving his NMC for Vegas. He potentially lost out on a lot of money if the Penguins were forced to buy him out.
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