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Old 02-09-2017, 04:35 PM   #1
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http://ckom.com/article/1295857/sask...eged-fan-abuse

This is why we're going to have trouble with ref recruiting and retaining.

The coach should be gone, and parents seem to be getting worse and worse.

I'm on the refs side, I'm amazed they didn't just say screw this it isn't worth it and walk off of the ice.
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Old 02-09-2017, 05:02 PM   #2
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Glad to hear the ref did that anyway. Said this before, but I recently used to work spring hockey tournaments for about 5 years (as an arena coordinator/point of contact, not a ref), and some of the abuse hurled at refs I've witnessed - especially teenage ones - is beyond embarrassing. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of nice parents at those events. But there's also "those" types of parents, sadly they're not rare either.

The part that really gets me is they're usually not rubadub-looking types either, but well-dressed, clearly well-to-do people with I assume good, influential jobs. Just seems extra gross some of the leaders driving our economy are such asshats to refs who look like they're in grade 9. It's shameful, and a little scary frankly

Edit: I just told my born & raised Sasky gf about the incident. She has informed me that if it was a P.A. team, the parents in question were probably rubadubs, lol.

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Old 02-09-2017, 06:03 PM   #3
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Glad to hear the ref did that anyway. Said this before, but I recently used to work spring hockey tournaments for about 5 years (as an arena coordinator/point of contact, not a ref), and some of the abuse hurled at refs I've witnessed - especially teenage ones - is beyond embarrassing. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of nice parents at those events. But there's also "those" types of parents, sadly they're not rare either.

The part that really gets me is they're usually not rubadub-looking types either, but well-dressed, clearly well-to-do people with I assume good, influential jobs. Just seems extra gross some of the leaders driving our economy are such asshats to refs who look like they're in grade 9. It's shameful, and a little scary frankly
I don't have kids, so I don't see it first hand, but I have friends on both sides of the fence economically and my general observations are the ones with money are a lot worst when it comes to sports than the ones who don't have it. I can't even listen to it sometimes anymore because all they do is talk about their kids sports and do so in a manner as if they are professional athletes. It's never "Tommy" has a game this weekend. It's "We" have a game this weekend or "we" won. They also seem a lot more involved with the politics of the sports likes and willing to move around to different associations if they don't get what they want. It's never their kid needs to improve and get better, it's "We" were wronged by team X or association X.

They seem to develop this attitude that because they spend X amount of dollars, have send their kids to X camp, bought X amount of high end equipment, and other parents haven't that there's no way their kids are inferior to someone else's on the sporting field.

Also, because they spend so much time at work (lawyers, CPAs, MBAs) etc. they live vicariously through these sports because it's sometimes the only interaction they have with their kids and, as a result, nothing but success will be accepted.

Could be way off base and i'm clearly generalizing, but that's the sense I get in dealing with my friends who have kids in sports. My friends with blue collar jobs are way more chill when it comes to their kids sports than those who are not. It's just not as important to them.

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Old 02-09-2017, 07:51 PM   #4
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Just disgusting. I can sort of see a justification for small amounts of abuse in professional hockey as careers are on the line but this has no place in minor hockey.

I used to ref hockey and got to a reasonably high level (Midget AA linesman, Bantam AAA ref and chosen for WHL mentor program) however gave up after the combination of abuse and low pay became too much to handle. I made far more money with far less stress collecting shopping carts and loading vehicles at Rona.
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:40 PM   #5
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Was at an end of season tournament game a few years back as the board representative for the Association putting the tourney on. This was an atom game, maybe lower level peewee. I threw a grandparent out of the rink for climbing up the glass and yelling over it at the 14 year old ref. I quite enjoyed that, so did that refs dad who came over to thank me.

The refs could have cleared the rink, told both coaches they had two minutes to clear their parents out. After two minutes the clock starts to run but the puck doesnt drop til all the parents are gone. I really dont have an issue with the refs stopping the game though, they take way too much s###.
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Old 02-10-2017, 04:36 AM   #6
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Chudyk noted the abuse continued to the point where P.A. Hurricanes coach Bill Hoko was kicked out for harassment of officials and "making a travesty of the game" in the second period.
"He told us we're supposed to put up with some of this (abuse)," Chudyk said. "In his mind, it was our job to put up with harassment." The 15-year officiating veteran said it took several minutes of arguing before Hoko left the ice surface.
Hoko, also president of the Prince Albert Minor Hockey Association, declined a request for comment.

There's the problem right there. The association enabled a ######bag like this to gain control.


Needs a top down approach if they're going to fix the problem even as far as hockey Canada investigating.
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:45 AM   #7
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There's the problem right there. The association enabled a ######bag like this to gain control.


Needs a top down approach if they're going to fix the problem even as far as hockey Canada investigating.
Hockey Canada, meh, I am not sure they really care about Minor Hockey in Canada.


Look at the cross ice debacle in dynamite and novice.
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Old 02-10-2017, 07:47 AM   #8
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the parents in question were probably rubadubs, lol.
What does that mean?
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:19 AM   #9
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Blake Deschenes, teen hockey ref, target of abuse from players' parents

17-year-old hockey official, in Hope, B.C., speaks out about fans' bad behaviour

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...ents-1.2920200

"I've experienced threats, accusations of racism. I've had parents wait outside the gates to escort me to dressing-rooms, as well as swearing and making very rude comments," said Deschenes, on CBC Radio One's B.C. Almanac.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:04 AM   #10
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I've now been an offical for 15 years. I have seen plenty and commend what these refs did. I promise you that this is making its rounds in the reffing community Alberta and it's not looking to pleasant. I would like to feel as though our zone would support our decision on this.

People feel as though just because it's a sporting event that what they say does not matter. Death threats are a constant to not only me as an official, but to the KIDS on the ice. In the end it's the KIDS that suffer. If this means we go drastic and no one is allowed in the arena while a game is going on to set a precident, then i'm all for it. This is sickening what has become of our sport.

We as officials have to hold ourselves in such a high mannor to show our love for the game. It would be nice to see those parents, coaches and players heald to the same respect.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:12 AM   #11
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As a coach, sometimes the hardest job is dealing with adults. Its the same in every sports. The plus of coaching youth sports is working with the kids, seeing them develop or change in the short year or two that you have them, then tracking how they do after that.

sometimes dealing with the parents is a major headache. Yes the parents in the stands are bad enough at times, the things they shout at the opposing team are on the verge of disturbing.

But its also incredibly tough dealing with the parents of your own players. You can tell a parent that your blue in the face, that little Johnny doesn't work hard in practice, or is disruptive, or doesn't put in the time to study the playbook, and it all comes back to Coach its your fault that little Johnny isn't a starter, because I think he's way better then the starter.

And I will say that Dad's are just plain worse then moms and that surprises me, because for the most part the Dad's have been through this kind of sports ringer before and should get it. But they don't because Dad's think they're sons are going to go onto the pro's.

I also think that the one thing that really shouldn't be allowed after Peewee age groups is allowing dads to coach their kids. When that hockey or football becomes really competitive and that gap in athleticism starts to close, Dad's cannot coach their kids with a clear eye. I've also seen too many coaches who's commitment to coach in a program ends the day his kid graduates or quits.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:15 AM   #12
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I've now been an offical for 15 years. I have seen plenty and commend what these refs did. I promise you that this is making its rounds in the reffing community Alberta and it's not looking to pleasant. I would like to feel as though our zone would support our decision on this.

People feel as though just because it's a sporting event that what they say does not matter. Death threats are a constant to not only me as an official, but to the KIDS on the ice. In the end it's the KIDS that suffer. If this means we go drastic and no one is allowed in the arena while a game is going on to set a precident, then i'm all for it. This is sickening what has become of our sport.

We as officials have to hold ourselves in such a high mannor to show our love for the game. It would be nice to see those parents, coaches and players heald to the same respect.
I will say that it appears that respect across the board is gone.

I find that refs are unwilling to even engage in a dialogue with a coach, and by dialogue I don't mean yelling, I don't mean the coaching standing on the bench and talking down to the ref.

I mean a discussion about the game or call. To my mind the ref's main job in minor hockey that is of player safety. I don't care if they miss an off side call, but if you have players being hit into the boards or icing being waived off because "they were in a foot race" there needs to be a discussion on why. These types of missed calls result in injuries or retaliations which an cause injuries.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:15 AM   #13
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I've now been an offical for 15 years. I have seen plenty and commend what these refs did. I promise you that this is making its rounds in the reffing community Alberta and it's not looking to pleasant. I would like to feel as though our zone would support our decision on this.

People feel as though just because it's a sporting event that what they say does not matter. Death threats are a constant to not only me as an official, but to the KIDS on the ice. In the end it's the KIDS that suffer. If this means we go drastic and no one is allowed in the arena while a game is going on to set a precident, then i'm all for it. This is sickening what has become of our sport.

We as officials have to hold ourselves in such a high mannor to show our love for the game. It would be nice to see those parents, coaches and players heald to the same respect.
I really do feel for not only how the officials have to get dealt with by he parents and fans, but by the coaches.

I used to be the worst for badgering officials to try to get calls to go my way. But it doesn't or shouldn't work, and I've had some really great officials basically putting their finger in my chest and telling me to calm down. So over the last couple of year, my goal is to be the calmest coach on the sidelines in our organization. Sure I might have an erruption once in a blue moon on a brutal call. But I want to be able to have a rational conversation with a ref, and you can't do that if you have saliva running down your chin and your eyes are spinning like a spin the wheel and make a deal prop.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:21 AM   #14
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I will say that it appears that respect across the board is gone.

I find that refs are unwilling to even engage in a dialogue with a coach, and by dialogue I don't mean yelling, I don't mean the coaching standing on the bench and talking down to the ref.

I mean a discussion about the game or call. To my mind the ref's main job in minor hockey that is of player safety. I don't care if they miss an off side call, but if you have players being hit into the boards or icing being waived off because "they were in a foot race" there needs to be a discussion on why. These types of missed calls result in injuries or retaliations which an cause injuries.
This is a great post and you got me thinking. When I took my safe contact certification I think it would have been prudent for officials to have to take the course alongside coaches.

First of all, to get officials talking to coaches away from the game, you know the whole common ground thing. Second of all, so officials would know what safe contact looks like and how coaches are supposed to teach it.

One of the biggest changes in football, is that as a coach if you don't have a safe contact certification you cannot coach. I would like to see how that's enforced. also we're supposed to spend 15 minutes a week teaching it during practice. So it should be apparent to a referee during a game if a coaching staff is teaching it or not and make sure that the league looks into that team.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:22 AM   #15
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I went through much the same experiences when I refereed minor hockey. That was a long while ago and by the sounds of things it has gotten much worse.

More recently I have been officiating Muay Thai at the international and professional level. From novice to professional there is nothing but respect from the fighters and coaches towards each other and the officials. Obviously this is taught along with their fighting skills. Why can't this be a part of the training for other sports such as hockey?
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:31 AM   #16
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unfortunately parents don't have to be certified when they put their kids into sports.

I know there's online things they're supposed to take but that's pretty voluntary.

I would love to have it at the start of each season that each team is responsible for running a seminar for parents of players, You could bring in the coaches and refs so they can get their perspective in terms of being verbally abused or threatened.

If as a parent you don't want to participate then your kid can't play. Its suppossed to be a whole team thing right? Parents/Players/Coaches.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:33 AM   #17
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I will say that it appears that respect across the board is gone.

I find that refs are unwilling to even engage in a dialogue with a coach, and by dialogue I don't mean yelling, I don't mean the coaching standing on the bench and talking down to the ref.

I mean a discussion about the game or call. To my mind the ref's main job in minor hockey that is of player safety. I don't care if they miss an off side call, but if you have players being hit into the boards or icing being waived off because "they were in a foot race" there needs to be a discussion on why. These types of missed calls result in injuries or retaliations which an cause injuries.
I can respect what you are saying here and I do feel as though there needs to be more communication between players and coaches. The issue which I have been told by many younger officials is that it's hard to go over and talk to a lot of coaches because they feel as though they are being talked down to. It's less of a questions and answer and more of a, "here's what I saw and why you should have called it".

We try our best to get supervisors out to as many games as we can, but once again, those are volunteer hours which can be a struggle to get.

You are correct that we are there for the players safety. I 100% agree with that. The difference in something being a penalty or not can come down your perspective. What I see on the ice compared to what you see on the bench are often two completely different angles. That's where as an older official I have learned to talk to coaches to explain what I saw and how I can only call what I see and now what you see.

This is also why we are trying to have coaches learn that we will talk to them, but we are not going to do it directly after that play. When the blood is pumping it is better to let it simmer. I will explain things to your captain briefly and then if you still have questions I will talk to you in between periods. We have found that by giving people time to simmer, it has reduced conflicts between coaches and officials
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:35 AM   #18
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unfortunately parents don't have to be certified when they put their kids into sports.

I know there's online things they're supposed to take but that's pretty voluntary.

I would love to have it at the start of each season that each team is responsible for running a seminar for parents of players, You could bring in the coaches and refs so they can get their perspective in terms of being verbally abused or threatened.

If as a parent you don't want to participate then your kid can't play. Its suppossed to be a whole team thing right? Parents/Players/Coaches.
Hockey Canada has the "Respect in Sport", which is mandatory I think, but I only seem to recall doing it once years ago.

It is interesting, my boy plays Lacrosse and there is a 0 tolerance for ref abuse. I have seen refs stop play and turn to the stands and point to a parent kicking them out. To be honest if was ####ing brilliant. He literally said to the parent that we will all stand here and watch you until you leave, nobody will play lacrosse while you are in this arena. My understanding is it has increased this coming season to include coaches at PeeWee and above. Any questions must go through your A's and C's, which I don't agree with.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:41 AM   #19
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I can respect what you are saying here and I do feel as though there needs to be more communication between players and coaches. The issue which I have been told by many younger officials is that it's hard to go over and talk to a lot of coaches because they feel as though they are being talked down to. It's less of a questions and answer and more of a, "here's what I saw and why you should have called it".

We try our best to get supervisors out to as many games as we can, but once again, those are volunteer hours which can be a struggle to get.

You are correct that we are there for the players safety. I 100% agree with that. The difference in something being a penalty or not can come down your perspective. What I see on the ice compared to what you see on the bench are often two completely different angles. That's where as an older official I have learned to talk to coaches to explain what I saw and how I can only call what I see and now what you see.

This is also why we are trying to have coaches learn that we will talk to them, but we are not going to do it directly after that play. When the blood is pumping it is better to let it simmer. I will explain things to your captain briefly and then if you still have questions I will talk to you in between periods. We have found that by giving people time to simmer, it has reduced conflicts between coaches and officials
I believe we are seeing this from the same viewpoint. A good buddy of mine is a senior ref and we have talked a few times about it.

As with any differing opinions an exchange of ideas/information goes a long way.

One thing I will say, it I agree that is can be difficult for young refs to talk to adult coaches. That is on the coaches 100% for not being approachable. I have told many a ref that nobody on our bench will yell at them for a call or missed call. We might ask to talk to them about it, but we won't yell at them. It is important as a coach to encourage the young refs and let them know you support their calls and their authority.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:44 AM   #20
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Hockey Canada has the "Respect in Sport", which is mandatory I think, but I only seem to recall doing it once years ago.

It is interesting, my boy plays Lacrosse and there is a 0 tolerance for ref abuse. I have seen refs stop play and turn to the stands and point to a parent kicking them out. To be honest if was ####ing brilliant. He literally said to the parent that we will all stand here and watch you until you leave, nobody will play lacrosse while you are in this arena. My understanding is it has increased this coming season to include coaches at PeeWee and above. Any questions must go through your A's and C's, which I don't agree with.
I'm not up to date on hockey, but isn't that an online course that's not really tracked?

I think it needs to be done yearly.

with coaching when I first went for my certification I had to spend a day on ethical decision making for example and then a half day on safe contact and then another day getting certified in a position (LB, DB, OL whatever). I go at least once a year, but my work load is now a day because I only need to add a position as I work towards a Coordinators or head coach certification if I want that.

I personally think it wouldn't be a bad idea that every year there's a requirement to take a refresher based around ethical decisions and dealing with officials and parents for example.


I really don't think its a bad idea for parents to have to take a 1 hour course or discussion group or whatever every year when they register their kid. Now the question is if their kids play multiple sports what do you do? Maybe have a signed off letter from the organization so that you can not have to go to 8 courses.
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