Toronto Blue Jays 2017 regular season thread

[ben voyonsdonc]

Something positive has to happen for this team...doesn't it? It just doesn't seem possible that absolutely everything can go wrong.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Hopefully it's nothing too serious for Happ.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Down 6-0 with this offense, might as well implement the mercy rule.

[vegasbound]

Getting ugly now

[ben voyonsdonc]

The Jays are truly Happless.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I certainly don't think they're the worst team in baseball....but I think we can pretty clearly say this is not a playoff team. So it'll be interesting to see what they do with the roster as far as trades go. Certainly have some assets that can be moved.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I certainly don't think they're the worst team in baseball....but I think we can pretty clearly say this is not a playoff team. So it'll be interesting to see what they do with the roster as far as trades go. Certainly have some assets that can be moved.

Without being super knowledgeable, is Aaron Sanchez a guy you keep through a rebuild, or use to get top tier assets back?

I mean obviously he's young enough to go through a rebuild and still be strong when you're hopefully coming out of it, but if he's hired a super agent to maximize his value and likely test free agency as soon as he's allowed maybe that helps your decision get assets back?

[Senator Clay Davis]

They have four more years of Sanchez under team control before he hits UFA, so I guess it depends if they wanna try a rebuild on the fly or if they wanna do a total blowup. Lots of decisions to make in that regard for Shapiro, roster needs a lot of work.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I think Sanchez is the ace that you build around. He might be the only untouchable.

[jayswin]

I personally don't think we'll be back to where we were the past two seasons within four years and if you're in a basement dwelling, prolonged rebuild guys like Donaldson and Sanchez are going to be looking to bail if they can.

So with that in mind, I prefer just calling it a rebuild and doing it properly, get the best assets you can for guys that likely won't be here in five years and don't let anyone's value go down before they leave if you can make the trades.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I think Sanchez is the ace that you build around. He might be the only untouchable.

There are absolutely no way he resigns with the team though. So you get 4 years of him while the team is rebuilding. If the Jays continue to slide, I think they have to at least see what teams are willing to pay for him.

[flames_fan_down_under]

I think Sanchez is absolutely untouchable. The Jays can build around Stroman, Sanchez and I think Donaldson still has some good years left in him.

The one piece that I think the Jays should consider moving if they're out of it is Osuna. Boston traded four prospects for Craig Kimbrel. Yankees got a boat load for Aroldis Chapman. While I don't think Osuna is as good as those two he is very young and has years of control, he won't be a free agent until 2021, which I think ups his value on the trade market a lot.

[bluejays]

Rebuilding is an easy thing in concept, but really tricky in reality.

Do you just load up on high value prospects and hope some pan out? And what timeline do you hope some pan out (ie: in a 3 year window or all at the same time in 3 years)?
Who on the current team will be part of the core when that happens and what will they project to be like in 3 years?
Do we throw away fan goodwill and expect them to be around during the dark years, and will they be back?

I personally think one of the things they have to do is what Anthopolous did originally and deal just a few of the guys now, who are at their peak (Bautista, Pillar, Tulowitzki), get a kings ransom for them as much as you can, and develop those prospects. The rest you continue to work with, and if in a couple years you're going nowhere, then guys like Donaldson, Stroman and Martin get dealt. Stripping the team clean is a really bad idea though, as you end up not focusing on developing guys, but instead spreading yourself too thin from a development standpoint.

[zukes]

I'm still not ready to give up. It's been an ugly start, but it is so early still. There is the saying, you are what the back of your baseball card says you are. that means that regression (in the good way) has to be coming, and soon.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by fleury

Rebuilding is an easy thing in concept, but really tricky in reality.

Do you just load up on high value prospects and hope some pan out? And what timeline do you hope some pan out (ie: in a 3 year window or all at the same time in 3 years)?
Who on the current team will be part of the core when that happens and what will they project to be like in 3 years?
Do we throw away fan goodwill and expect them to be around during the dark years, and will they be back?

I personally think one of the things they have to do is what Anthopolous did originally and deal just a few of the guys now, who are at their peak (Bautista, Pillar, Tulowitzki), get a kings ransom for them as much as you can, and develop those prospects. The rest you continue to work with, and if in a couple years you're going nowhere, then guys like Donaldson, Stroman and Martin get dealt. Stripping the team clean is a really bad idea though, as you end up not focusing on developing guys, but instead spreading yourself too thin from a development standpoint.

I agree with your first thought. A rebuild, especially in baseball, is really, really tough. Prospects are more hit and miss and you don't typically see first round picks for so many years anyway that its tough to just throw out there "let's rebuild". Easier said than done, especially in baseball and it's not like the Jays are sitting on alot of propsects that are close. Probably 2-3 years away from most of their good prospects being ready.


Another problem I see witht he rebuild Idea is the guys you want to trade I don't think are worth much. I think the Jays would have to eat a ton of Tulos deal just to move him, let alone get value, and i'm not sure what kind of value someone like Bautista has.

The rest of the season I think is going to come down to the health of Happ/Sanchez though. I still believe this offence is going to turn around because it really isn't as bad as the numbers suggest. The would need to win at a 95 win pace the rest of the season to get to 90 wins and have a chance at the post season which I don't think is out of the question with this roster. Needs to turn around pretty quick thought and if Happ/Sanchez are going to miss more than a few starts then I dont' think it's going to happen. This year's team was always going to be about their rotation and if that can't hold up, they are in big trouble.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Here's your depressing Jays stat of the day:

Dirk Hayhurst‏@TheGarfoose
How about this: Madison Bumgarner has more RBI's and Homers than Bautista, Martin, and Travis COMBINED (2), despite 106 less AB's.

[JiriHrdina]

I'm not a Cox guy but I don't think he's wrong here
https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluej...build-cox.html

[REDVAN]

The only solace I can find when I review the standings, is that Cleveland and Texas are also in the basement of their divisions too. And Seattle sucks.

[BOSSY]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

There are absolutely no way he resigns with the team though. So you get 4 years of him while the team is rebuilding. If the Jays continue to slide, I think they have to at least see what teams are willing to pay for him.

Totally disagree and you don't trade one of the top end pitchers in baseball when you control him for what - four more years - for essentially nothing...

[zukes]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

There are absolutely no way he resigns with the team though. So you get 4 years of him while the team is rebuilding. If the Jays continue to slide, I think they have to at least see what teams are willing to pay for him.

Why? Because..Boras? That's lazy. Many Boras clients are re-signing with their teams now. Plus 4 years is a long time, I've said it before, but the Jays could have tanked and be on the verge of being the next great Jays team by then. No way you trade a young controllable pitcher that you drafted and developed and chose to keep out of the "big three" (previous regime, but the point is valid still).