2016-17 Toronto Raptors and General NBA Thread

[bluejays]

There's something I thoroughly enjoy about Lebron losing badly. I haven't watched a game after the Raps lost (again, because the NBA product is bad now), but just seeing the boxscore is great. The more that egomaniac's legacy is tarnished the better. The NBA's gotta find a way to distribute players more evenly though. This nonsense of good players only signing on to superteams has got tiresome fast.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Oh I think Lebron's legacy is going to be just fine. Just a matter of where he ranks amongst the best ever. A loss in this final doesn't change that.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Oh I think Lebron's legacy is going to be just fine. Just a matter of where he ranks amongst the best ever. A loss in this final doesn't change that.

Agree, but it'll still be the question of him not being able to close it out when it mattered most. I don't blame him, I just think these types of questions always come up. Personally, his size and speed combo have him as the most dominant player the sport has ever seen, but on athleticism and clutch shots, it'd have to go to Kobe and MJ.

[Senator Clay Davis]

LeBron's legacy was secured when they won last year, he's in the top 10 and the clear choice as the best post-Jordan player. But that may be his last ring, or maybe he leaves Cleveland to go somewhere else. Cavs are gonna need some wizardry this summer to come close to fielding a team as good as the Warriors, and the Celtics can still add a big piece with all of their assets so the Cavs might actually have a threat in the East next year (or the Celts will keep sitting on their assets).

As far as the superteams go the league maybe should have blocked the Durant signing using blocking Chris Paul to the Lakers as a precedent, but now it's too late and even if the Warriors trade Klay (which would make sense to keep cap flexibility) they are still too good. Maybe CP3 goes to San Antonio and they have a decent shot against the Warriors, but then the regular season is still meaningless, as is every playoff series but that one. The league loves dynasties, but this is the era of short attention spans so people will get bored pretty quick of even one more year of Cavs-Warriors, let alone the 2-3 more it might end up being.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by fleury

There's something I thoroughly enjoy about Lebron losing badly. I haven't watched a game after the Raps lost (again, because the NBA product is bad now), but just seeing the boxscore is great. The more that egomaniac's legacy is tarnished the better. The NBA's gotta find a way to distribute players more evenly though. This nonsense of good players only signing on to superteams has got tiresome fast.

Nothing makes me happier than seeing LeBron act like a little child
When it becomes apparent his travelling allstar team is now not even in the same league as another travelling allstar team that beat him at his own game. Watching him taking no responsibility and berating his teammates during gameplay publicly Cements his legacy to me. Great player, that needs others to get him over the top. Not a guy that makes others around him better.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

As far as the superteams go the league maybe should have blocked the Durant signing using blocking Chris Paul to the Lakers as a precedent, but now it's too late

Although the only way the NBA was able to block that trade was because they were running New Orleans at the time.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well should be a sweep now with how demoralizing that loss was for Cleveland.

[You Need a Thneed]

Finally a decent game.

Cavs with a strong 3rd, and lead all of the 4th until 44 seconds left.

Warriors score the last 11 points of the game to win 118-113.

[I_H8_Crawford]

The Warriors are unstoppable. Even with amazing performances from LeBron and Kyrie it wasnt enough.

I wonder if MJs Bulls could stop this team, they are that good.

[robaur]

Forget MJ.

This game is another example as to why Kobe > LeBron.

[Hockey]

Originally Posted by robaur

Forget MJ.

This game is another example as to why Kobe > LeBron.

No chance Kobe's Lakers beat this Warriors team

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

The Warriors are unstoppable. Even with amazing performances from LeBron and Kyrie it wasnt enough.

I wonder if MJs Bulls could stop this team, they are that good.

All about the rules. Today's rules and the Warriors probably win, although I feel strongly that MJ in today's rules would average 50 points a game. 90's rules? Warriors lose by 20 at least. And that's actually one thing the league could do to even things up is bring back hand checking and eliminate those stupid touch me and I chuck it up and get free throws out of it fouls. It's the equivalent of diving in the box in soccer.

Also Kobe is not better than LeBron, Kobe's not even better than Tim Duncan. A better question might be is Durant better than Kobe.

[killer_carlson]

It's so tough to compare eras in the NBA because of the rules changes.

No doubt that with today's rules the Warriors win.

But put the Warriors in the late 80s, early 90s with the rules as they were back then? Curry doesn't make it out of the first minute, durant would be in the IR, and Thompson's dad would put him into the third row the first time he shot an off balance 3.

And that's before they even get to play the Pistons...

[SilverGS]

yeah this warrior team is insane. I thought the Cavs outplayed them for the most part in the first half but the Warriors were leading due to 70% 3 point shooting ... crazy

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by SilverGS

yeah this warrior team is insane. I thought the Cavs outplayed them for the most part in the first half but the Warriors were leading due to 70% 3 point shooting ... crazy

The TSN commentary after the game said something like: "Everytime the Cavs make a mistake, the Warriors score 3 points."

Was pretty accurate yesterday.

[CaptainCrunch]

[robaur]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Kobe's not even better than Tim Duncan.

Kobe 25 ppg career average with 3 years above 30 ppg.
Duncan 19 ppg career average with 0 years above 30 ppg.

Kobe was the better shooter.
Kobe was the better free-throw shooter.
Kobe was the better closer.
Kobe was the better playmaker.
Kobe played more minutes.
Kobe played more positions and guarded more positions.

Practically all of Duncan's success and championships can be attributed to the players around him and the system employed by Popovich.

What in the world are you talking about?

LeBron James can't close games so what's the point? You can be as good as you want for the first 3 quarters but if you can't close the 4th then you're not one of the greatest players of all time. There's a reason he's about to lose his FIFTH NBA Final......really should be six...he got lucky GSW screwed up last year.

Not to mention that Bryant's career effectively ended at age 34 when he tore his achilles.....Duncan had the chance to play until age 39...

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well you just called Tim Duncan a system player so yeah....obviously you're a big Kobe fan, but no need to be extremely disrespectful to an incredible player. Also...

- Kobe is a worse shooter. Kobe's best season ever is 47% from the field. Tim Duncan's worst season ever is 48%. For fun, LeBron's worst is 47%, and both LeBron and Duncan have career 50% averages

- Kobe being a better closer? Do you wanna know something interesting? On shots to take the lead on the 4th quarter, Kobe is FG% wise behind the following players: Brandon Roy, Ray Allen, Deron Williams, Rudy Gay, Carmelo Anthony. So the notion of Kobe being some immaculate closer is beyond wrong. You'd rather have the ball in Rudy Gay's hands. The Spurs blow teams out mostly, so they don't need TD to be a closer.

- Kobe Bryant was a better playmaker.....a guy who averaged less than 5 assists a game despite dominating the ball more than 50% of his teams possesions. A guy considered one of the most selfish players in history, who jacked it up 30+ times a game more than anyone....hmmmm

- Playing more minutes means what exactly? That Tim Duncan's teams were much better than Kobe's? Fair point

- They both guarded two positions primarily. Kobe never took PGs or PFs. Duncan did Cs and PFs. So nothing to that argument whatsoever.

- Tim Duncan didn't need Ron Artest to pretty much save his legacy. Remember 6-24 in Game 7 against the Celtics? Of course you don't, because Ron Ron made the 3 to bail him out from losing his "clutch" label.

The best way I can look at it is if you were playing one-on-one basketball, Kobe would be in the top 5 or so choices ever. If you were choosing players to build a team around, Kobe wouldn't be in the top 30 and possibly even lower, whereas Duncan might be in the top 10. Kobe is far too selfish, far too poor a decision maker, far too poor a teammate. I'll give him slight credit for being the only post-Jordan player to have the MJ "#### everyone" attitude, he just did everything appreciably worse than Jordan. Durant's numbers are pretty eye popping. With the 4-6 rings he's about to win, I suspect he's very much in the conversation to be better than Kobe. But Duncan definitely is since basketball is a team sport and Duncan's worst season is still winning 50 games and making the playoffs. Kobe? See post 2011 and post Phil Jackson the first time.

[GGG]

The NBA could solve its super team dilemma if it got rid of the individual player Max Salary.

If Durant and Curry could sign for 50 million somewhere next year it would be much tougher for them to stay together. Instead all it takes is for Durant to take 32 instead of 35. So only 3 million of 70 million is left on the table. Instead under a no individual cap system they would have to give up 30 million between them.

Since top players aren't paid what they are worth it makes sense they take small pay cuts to have fun and play where they want to. If you want to stop super teams pay people what they are worth.

I like watching Golden State. Amazing basketball, and far better than ISO ball or post up focused basketball. I suspect though after 2 more years of this the NBA will fix the corner 3. Of you just continue the arc radius until it goes out of bounds it will get rid of the corner 3 and decrease the overal efficiency of 3 point shooting and force the game back inside.

[Da_Chief]

Cavs shooting the lights out tonight. 86 points in the first half but still only an 18 point game. They better hope the shooting continues in the 2nd half.