[News] Tij Iginla selected ninth overall by Seattle in WHL Draft

[Enoch Root]

Regarding trajectory and progression...

THAT is the #1 argument in favour of Iginla.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Interesting that you looked at that list of data and thought it proved your point.

Chances of making the nhl from minor hockey is 1 in 4000. There have been 300 players make the HOF out of the roughly 7500 players to have ever played the game (4%). In 2022 6.1% of the NHL had a father who had played before in the league.

The fact that we can roll off a few names easily is likely showing that Tij has a better shot of out performing his dad, than someone with identical stat's and being the first in his family to get this far.

It's interesting that I never said HOF players, I said elite players. But I guess details aren't important when you're too busy trying to be smug. If you think 4 examples of a father-son combo having elite careers (Reinhart had 2 sons bust out of the league also) is a great case for Tij being elite, then go ahead and list the father-son combos where the son didn't

[Bonded]

Maybe they can trade Andersson and get a pick that will work for Tij and still pick up a center or D with their top pick

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Groot

It's interesting that I never said HOF players, I said elite players. But I guess details aren't important when you're too busy trying to be smug. If you think 4 examples of a father-son combo having elite careers (Reinhart had 2 sons bust out of the league also) is a great case for Tij being elite, then go ahead and list the father-son combos where the son didn't

I didn't think they were being smug. You said there aren't many examples. Rutuu showed some numbers that would suggest that, if anything, there MAY be more sons in the game than random chance would suggest. I didn't think Rutuu was suggesting that their numbers were conclusively proving them right and you wrong (if that is what Rutuu was doing, I don't agree with them), I thought they were saying that the numbers we do have suggest that maybe there is something to the lineage argument.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

This is a valid argument and the same thing happen to his Pops except that it happened in his D+1 season.
Trajectory of development is important.
And to be clear, if the Flames think he's the best player at their spot - by all means draft him. Just don't elevate him on your list because of his name.

It's clear that that this is a very emotional topic for Flames fans and that's totally understandable and why I don't see either side of the argument changing their feelings on this topic making this akin to beating a dead horse between now and the draft. However the when it comes to making the pick, the Flames absolutely have to remove emotion from the equation and strictly go off what scouting and management has deemed to be the best player available at that pick. This is a critical time for the future of the organization. They need to try and hit on some of the draft picks they have accumulated. I don't think Honzek was a slam dunk pick so going two straight drafts without unearthing a blue chip type prospect is going to stunt the rebuild/retool or whatever the Flames are calling it. Make the right pick and if it's Tij in their eyes then so be it.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I didn't think they were being smug. You said there aren't many examples. Rutuu showed some numbers that would suggest that, if anything, there MAY be more sons in the game than random chance would suggest. I didn't think Rutuu was suggesting that their numbers were conclusively proving them right and you wrong (if that is what Rutuu was doing, I don't agree with them), I thought they were saying that the numbers we do have suggest that maybe there is something to the lineage argument.

If that's the case then he could've just clarified his interpretation of the data without the passive aggressive "interesting..." comment. I never said HOF though, and in that example there is one parent that went 1 for 3 when it came to successful NHL players, so no I do not think that 4 examples of elite players having elite sons in the history of the league works as a good argument that Tij will follow his fathers trajectory.

His recent upward trending absolutely and year to year growth absolutely.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Groot

If that's the case then he could've just clarified his interpretation of the data without the passive aggressive "interesting..." comment. I never said HOF though, and in that example there is one parent that went 1 for 3 when it came to successful NHL players, so no I do not think that 4 examples of elite players having elite sons in the history of the league works as a good argument that Tij will follow his fathers trajectory.

His recent upward trending absolutely and year to year growth absolutely.

The real key is the trajectory. And, of course, who else might be available when it comes time to pick. Blindly selecting just to appease the fan base is not the way to go. That's how you end up picking Brent Krahn 9th overall.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by SilverKast

Can add Nylander in there too, although he had one that turned out really well and the other not so much so far.

I don't know if it counts but there are a lot of successful brothers.

[DazzlinDino]

Conroy seems to lean on the scouts, I doubt they're going to make an emotional pick. It's important the Flames pick the best player and I would have to think they will.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Conroy seems to lean on the scouts, I doubt they're going to make an emotional pick. It's important the Flames pick the best player and I would have to think they will.

Picking the best player also means not leaving Tij on the board because you think there might be pressure. There might, but there also might not. Look at Doan in Arizona as an example. Just pick him if he's the best player.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I don't know if it counts but there are a lot of successful brothers.

Because there’s almost nothing in the universe that’s a better motivator than “beat your brother”.

[GioforPM]

There's a few more successful father son combos if you eliminate things like HOF or elite and just get "pretty darn good". Stastny, Tinordi, Steen, Nylander, Manson, Lowry.

It'll be interesting to see how Josh Doan progresses because Shane Doan and Jarome Iginla are so closely tied.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There's a few more successful father son combos if you eliminate things like HOF or elite and just get "pretty darn good". Stastny, Tinordi, Steen, Nylander, Manson, Lowry.

It'll be interesting to see how Josh Doan progresses because Shane Doan and Jarome Iginla are so closely tied.

That's true. Josh's early success might help alleviate any reservations Iginla himself might have regarding Tij playing in Calgary, also.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I don't know if it counts but there are a lot of successful brothers.

Which is why Calgary got Val Bure, Markus Granlund, Rob Neidermayer, Wayne Primeau, Max Reinhart.

I kid though - the Flames had the better Mullen, Tkachuk.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Which is why Calgary got Val Bure, Markus Granlund, Rob Neidermayer, Wayne Primeau, Max Reinhart.

I kid though - the Flames had the better Mullen, Tkachuk.

Also the better Kiprusoff.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Also the better Kiprusoff.

I wasn't counting guys like that or I could have added Kromm, Loob, and Cloutier.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think that lineage is an advantage for sure. Tkachuk grew up around NHLers, and absorbed a lot of their hockey wisdom. It's why his hockey IQ is elite.

I would say the exact same thing about Vaddy Jr. and Bichette.

But the problem I have with this debate, and with TrentCrimm's arguments in particular, is taking this fact, and applying it in absolute terms, without nuance.

Is it an advantage? Yes, often. Is it always an advantage? No, there are far too many variables here, including and especially, personalities.

So to say: "we should draft Iggy, because lineage" is just not a valid argument, even though the premise (that lineage can be an advantage) may have some validity.

It's the conclusions that are usually a problem: people take something - a fact like this, or a comment from Friedman, or whatever - and draw conclusions that aren't warranted. There is a lot more grey in teh world, than there is black and white.

Ryan Sittler grew up around the game too. If Iginla is the player they think is best take him. But his last name is irrelevant to me.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Ryan Sittler grew up around the game too. If Iginla is the player they think is best take him. But his last name is irrelevant to me.

As did Eric Nystrom.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

That's true. Josh's early success might help alleviate any reservations Iginla himself might have regarding Tij playing in Calgary, also.

It’s a lot easier to play in the dumps of Arizona as the son of Shane Doan who isn’t exactly a big name.

Iginla is a hall of famer and one of the best scorers. The spotlight and pressure in Calgary is going to shine bright.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Which is why Calgary got Val Bure, Markus Granlund, Rob Neidermayer, Wayne Primeau, Max Reinhart.

I kid though - the Flames had the better Mullen, Tkachuk.

For sure, we always seemed to get that second best brother.

We had some pretty good teams back then