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Old 06-26-2017, 12:29 PM   #121
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Eh, I think most people just ignore you to begin with.
"I used to think that the worst thing in life was to end up all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is ending up with people who make you feel all alone."
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:30 PM   #122
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L'enfer, c'est les autres?
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:45 PM   #123
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First asks me to do his research for him, then tells me I'm "clueless" and "ignorant".
I remember there used to be another dude here, Larry12 or something like that. Anyways, he would tell people to go read books he had read, that would prove his point and change their minds.
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Old 06-26-2017, 01:34 PM   #124
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So I have a couple of questions for the field here.

Let's say that another protest was started, this one was protesting radical islamic terrorism, and violence in the name of islam. Would that also be islamophic? Racist? I'm willing to bet you'd have people protesting that protest claiming it's hate speech.
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Old 06-26-2017, 01:51 PM   #125
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What would the goal of said protest be?
Are you trying to convince people that terrorism is bad? Make them aware that terrorism exists? Highlight the link between radical Islam and terrorism?
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:00 PM   #126
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So I have a couple of questions for the field here.

Let's say that another protest was started, this one was protesting radical islamic terrorism, and violence in the name of islam. Would that also be islamophic? Racist? I'm willing to bet you'd have people protesting that protest claiming it's hate speech.
Depends a lot on who's protesting and how. The one that comes immediately to mind was in Finland by refugees mostly from Iraq.

It was mostly just ignored.
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:22 PM   #127
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Protesting terrorism?

Bold position, btw you're all invited to my protest against murder this weekend. It's being organised by a group of us who thinks murder is bad. Pls support.
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:47 PM   #128
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What would the goal of said protest be?
Are you trying to convince people that terrorism is bad? Make them aware that terrorism exists? Highlight the link between radical Islam and terrorism?
Yes. As you can see below, not only did PepsiFree ignore that the protest was specific to Islamic terrorism, he literally drove right past it.

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Protesting terrorism?

Bold position, btw you're all invited to my protest against murder this weekend. It's being organised by a group of us who thinks murder is bad. Pls support.
Religious terrorism, specifically, Islamic terrorism. I thought I was clear with that in my original post? Or is this the opening salvo in an argument you'll make that Isis and Boko Haram and the dozens of other Islamic terrorist organizations are not fueled by religion and having nothing to do with Islam?
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:53 PM   #129
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Pretty sure it's just as obvious that religiously motivated terrorism is bad. What was your plan here? Show up with signs that say "We oppose the killing of innocent people in the name of God"? My response to that would be "well, duh."

I mean, sure, you'd probably get some people telling you that Islam has nothing to do with terrorism and "they're perverting a religion of peace" and all of that schtick. I assume that's what you're suggesting and I suspect that would indeed happen... But other than deliberately provoking that reaction, what was the purpose of the demonstration in the first place?
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Old 06-26-2017, 02:55 PM   #130
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Pretty sure it's just as obvious that religiously motivated terrorism is bad. What was your plan here? Show up with signs that say "We oppose the killing of innocent people in the name of God"? My response to that would be "well, duh."
I think you would be immensely surprised by the amount of people who refuse to draw a link between ISIS and their acts of terrorism and Islam.
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Old 06-26-2017, 05:00 PM   #131
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I would be pretty surprised to find that the leaders of ISIS care at all about Islam other than to use it as a tool for control.
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Old 06-26-2017, 05:09 PM   #132
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The leaders might not but the followers certainly do.

They find comfort in it and it allows them to justify following pretty sh%%%y orders

That and the threat of execution by RPG
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Old 06-26-2017, 05:48 PM   #133
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I would be pretty surprised to find that the leaders of ISIS care at all about Islam other than to use it as a tool for control.
I think that's a dangerously naive view point
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:25 PM   #134
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The leaders might not but the followers certainly do.

They find comfort in it and it allows them to justify following pretty sh%%%y orders

That and the threat of execution by RPG
ISIS also gives you food, shelter, spending money, some protection from other people with guns, plus of course a gun you can use to take stuff instead of paying for it.

Many ISIS "affiliates" are pretty much just local militias or gangs they've hired to join them. I'm not saying Islam/Wahhabism has nothing to do with it, because obviously it does, and there's probably plenty of true believers mixed in there, but some of the reasons people join are just basic human stuff.

ISIS probably isn't that bad as an employer, if you have the stomach for killing people.

It's one of the reasons the situation in Iraq/Syria is so grim. Even if you manage to destroy ISIS as an organization, most likely some other a-hole will take over the oilfields and start filling the power vacuum with his own army. Those countries are just so bombed to hell now that for a lot of people joining some armed group is if not the only option available, at least the most tempting option.

Yemen seems to be heading down the same path with their civil war.
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Old 06-26-2017, 11:15 PM   #135
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I would be pretty surprised to find that the leaders of ISIS care at all about Islam other than to use it as a tool for control.
Insert the bulk of religions into this statement and you would be accurate.
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:16 AM   #136
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Yeah, I can't imagine why I don't want to get into a drawn out substantive conversation with you about anything and explain my perspective in more detail, given the way you've tried to engage me so far. I can't think of a single reason why I wouldn't think that was a worthwhile way to spend my time. Not a one.

As for the burden of proof, I'm not actually burdened by a pressing desire to prove anything to you, especially given your attitude. I don't see you as worth the time or effort to have the conversation with, for the reasons demonstrated by the above quote, among others (including the way you started off). I also don't see it as worth my time to provide examples of something that seems to me to be totally uncontroversial. So if you don't believe me, go figure it out yourself.

I don't particularly care if you actually do or not. Not only do you not have any qualifications or apparent capabilities that I think are worth engaging with, you haven't come to this conversation showing anything resembling good faith, hence my dismissal of your posts. I also don't think, given your posting history and previous unsolicited private messages, that there's any more chance that you'll amend your perspective than I do that Nage Waza's going to suddenly decide tomorrow that Israel's got it all wrong and should be subjected to strict sanctions. So if I'm not getting anything interesting or useful out of the exchange, and I'm not likely to do you any favours either, what's the point in continuing it? Have you accuse me of ignorance and a lack of understanding of basic points a few more times? No thanks. You go do you.
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I've never understood that objection. That post took me about 40 seconds. Is that a long time to tell someone I don't want to deal with their schtick and so they should buzz off?
I don't know why you'd think anyone, other than Itse, would possibly be interested in reading your diatribe.
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:47 AM   #137
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I can't imagine why you'd think you can speak for everyone, and even more unimaginable, why you think it was necessary to take that particular cheap shot.
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Old 06-27-2017, 09:48 AM   #138
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Insert the bulk of religions into this statement and you would be accurate.
I don't think that's true. I think most religious leaders, either fanatical or mainstream, do honestly feel that they are doing God's work. The selfish human nature lusting for land, power, sex, money, etc., just works its way to surface more in some people and some religions more than others.

Don't get me wrong, there are some complete frauds out there, like psychics and ghost hunters, but I think most religious leaders believe their own BS.
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:02 AM   #139
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ISIS also gives you food, shelter, spending money, some protection from other people with guns, plus of course a gun you can use to take stuff instead of paying for it.

Many ISIS "affiliates" are pretty much just local militias or gangs they've hired to join them. I'm not saying Islam/Wahhabism has nothing to do with it, because obviously it does, and there's probably plenty of true believers mixed in there, but some of the reasons people join are just basic human stuff.

ISIS probably isn't that bad as an employer, if you have the stomach for killing people.

It's one of the reasons the situation in Iraq/Syria is so grim. Even if you manage to destroy ISIS as an organization, most likely some other a-hole will take over the oilfields and start filling the power vacuum with his own army. Those countries are just so bombed to hell now that for a lot of people joining some armed group is if not the only option available, at least the most tempting option.

Yemen seems to be heading down the same path with their civil war.
On top of it, it attracts people that want to have sex with young children, have a arranged marriage because your too much of a loser to talk to girls and kill kill kill, all with gods blessing because your doing that work.

If there actually is a hell, I bet a lot of guys are surprised when they show up at the flaming entrails gates.

Satan - "They told you whats ok? I don't know what to tell you"
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Old 06-27-2017, 10:05 AM   #140
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I think that's a dangerously naive view point
I'm quite certain that the leaders of ISIS certainly do care about their beliefs. But religion is a tool of control.
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