Back Up Goalie Discussion

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Absolutely there is. What if Rittich plays a few games at back up and clearly struggles at the NHL level, then the next day the team announces Mike Smith has a knee injury and is out four months?

Our season will effectively be over. No way Brad goes into the season without an NHL level back up. Not a chance.

But what if the NHL level back up gets injured also? Or just ####s the bed?. What if Gillies or Rittich play lights out?

What ifs work both ways.

[868904]

With the whole "bleeding picks" thingy, I wonder if it might be worth it for the Flames to utilize some of the cap space to buy a 2nd or 3rd rounder for one of Dallas' goalies. I feel that there is some decent prospect depth at forward and defense (guys that are ripe like Shinkaruk, Jankowski, Hathaway, Kulak, Wothersppon) that the Flames don't have to spend big in ufas at those positions, a Versteeg (1 year low cap hit) type veteran is probably all is needed at forward and defense.

Lehtonen is the better goalie and his best season was under GG. Neimi is a Cup winnin starter. Flames would restock a little bit of the lost picks and pick up an insurance policy in goal. Maybe with the defense the flames have, Lehtonen or Niemi play like actual NHL starters?

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by BigRed

Ahem. Please see sig.

On topic: Smith IMHO is a bit rickety at 35. I doubt they're hoping for more than 55ish games from him, which means a proven NHL backup, not a hope for the best youngster.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

55 game is what I expect from Smith!

Yet its time to let our prospects get some NHL experience. Our prospect goalies? Gillies, Rittich, McDonald, McCollum, Schneider, Parsons. 6 goalies, and only an ECHL net and an AHL net available! So four prospects don't get playing time?

Its time for a youngster to get a shot as the backup. If he doesn't work we have 5 others to give a chance too.

Signing a ufa back up defeats the purpose of drafting goalies at this point.

We signed Smith so we can bring our young guys into the fold.

Let them shine or let them fail. On paper we are icing one of the best defenses in the league now.

We wont be hanging young goalies out to dry.

If our young goalies can not excel in this system its time to move on. Yet they need a chance to prove themselves.

Behind our top four, Everyone of our prospect should play well. If they don't, move on to the next guy.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Why does everyone seem to want Chiasson gone? Is it because we really need Hathaway in the lineup? Or do you think he'll cost too much in arbitration?

Edit: what are the conditions for walking away from an arbitration deal? Personally I qualify him as long as we can walk away from anything ridiculous. Depth is good and we can always put him on waivers if he's pushed out of the lineup

This flames team has no toughness, it was lacking toughness even before losing Engelland. Chiasson is not tough and doesn't belong on the first 3 lines, that forth line needs some sandpaper and Hathaway is perfect. Hathaway also had good chemistry with Jankowski, and I think if you had a veteran on their wing like Stajan or even Bouma, that would be a good way to transition both prospects into full time nhlers.

Chiasson is a good hockey player but I just dont think he is what this team needs on the forth line right now.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Good points made so far, but one thing to mention:

Do NOT overspend on the backup goaltender please. No discussion of guys like Ward or Lehtonen or any other starter who's fallen from grace. They come with bloated contracts that are unnecessary to take on. We are shedding some overpaid veteran contracts this year, and we shouldn't pull an Oilers and turn around to spend that money in a cavalier way.

We currently have about $15 million in cap space. There are RFA contracts to give out to 4 players in Sam Bennett, Micheal Ferland, Alex Chiasson, and Curtis Lazar. I think Bennett making between $2.5 and $3 million seems fair. Both Ferland and Chiasson have arbitration rights, so I doubt they get a qualifying offer. More likely they make around $2 million each. Lazar might only get his qualifying offer. That's about $10 million in cap hit for those 4 players.

You can't turn around and spend the remaining $5 million on a backup goalie by picking up someone like Cam Ward. We need some of those dollars to fill out our bottom pairing defense positions.

Cost is one of the reasons I'm fine letting Rittich attempt to be the backup to start the year. He's older, has more experience, and put up a very good season in the AHL last year. He deserves a chance at least, especially at a low cap hit. IF it doesn't work out, you can try Gillies as well. IF BOTH don't work out, you can pursue a veteran.

There are more veteran NHL goalies than positions available, so I think you could find a guy cheaply partway through the year if everything falls apart, either through trade or UFA signing. If they have a higher cap hit, it actually makes sense to get them later in the year when most of their salary has been paid. So IF you still want a veteran like Ward or Lehtonen (not that I do), then you can justify trading for them later in the year to solidify the goaltending heading into the playoffs. Heck, you might even be able to coax out additional assets like draft picks to take the contract off the other team's hands.

If you're signing an UFA, keep the salary under $2 million. Anything more than that and you run with Rittich and Gillies until both falter.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by memphusk

But what if the NHL level back up gets injured also? Or just ####s the bed?. What if Gillies or Rittich play lights out?



What ifs work both ways.

Not really, because in your scenario there is no insurance policy in goal to mitigate against injuries. By signing a seasoned backup there is depth in place that INCLUDES both Gillies and Rittich to ensure that an injury to a goalie does not completely derail the season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Goriders

No doubt. Why keep drafting goalies if you're scared to use them?

They're just going to leave eventually if you keep signing journeymen over top of them.

The oldest of the Flames young goalies is 25-years-old. A total of 54 goalies started in at least 20 games last year, and only eight of them were 25-years-old or younger. There is still plenty of time for the Flames to continue to develop their goalies.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

So much talk about Developing goalies and still no talk of changing goalie coaches.

How many more goalies do we need to go thru with Sigalet?

Not saying he's solely to blame but something isn't right I'd say.

So, what is it that "isn't right" with Sigalet?

I wouldn't want Gillies Rittich and Parsons skills degraded.

How come a goalie coach plays by different protocols than a head coach?

What different protocols does Sigalet work under compared to the rest of the coaching staff?

We were all calling for Glue guns head last year and then turned it around.

Sigalet has had how many years ?

Well, fans were clearly wrong and extremely premature to start pining for a coaching change last year. Could you also be completely wrong in your assessment of Sigalet.

It has been said numerous times already in numerous threads. No one outside of the organisation has a good idea about what Sigalet does well or poorly, because no one has a good handle on what exactly it is that he does and how he goes about doing it. With all that Treeliving has invested in goaltending over the past three seasons are you honestly convinced that he is reticent to make a coaching change if this were an issue? That makes no sense.

[home_sweet_dome]

Niemi, after he gets traded for Bouma and a pick.

Both players have 1 year remaining on their contracts, Niemi costs 2.3 mill more so the Flames get a 2nd or 3rd rounder out of it which recoups a pick.

Either that or Condon or Johnson.

The bigger worry with respect to goaltending is the development of Parsons, Gillies, and Rittich. These guys all need to play lots against quality opposition so ideally would be AHL starters getting the bulk of the workload but obviously that's impossible given there's 3 of them.

Most likely 2 will split time in Stockton and 1 will be the ECHL starter but IMO that's not the best development plan for any of them.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Good points made so far, but one thing to mention:

Do NOT overspend on the backup goaltender please. No discussion of guys like Ward or Lehtonen or any other starter who's fallen from grace. They come with bloated contracts that are unnecessary to take on. We are shedding some overpaid veteran contracts this year, and we shouldn't pull an Oilers and turn around to spend that money in a cavalier way.

We currently have about $15 million in cap space. There are RFA contracts to give out to 4 players in Sam Bennett, Micheal Ferland, Alex Chiasson, and Curtis Lazar. I think Bennett making between $2.5 and $3 million seems fair. Both Ferland and Chiasson have arbitration rights, so I doubt they get a qualifying offer. More likely they make around $2 million each. Lazar might only get his qualifying offer. That's about $10 million in cap hit for those 4 players.

You can't turn around and spend the remaining $5 million on a backup goalie by picking up someone like Cam Ward. We need some of those dollars to fill out our bottom pairing defense positions.

Cost is one of the reasons I'm fine letting Rittich attempt to be the backup to start the year. He's older, has more experience, and put up a very good season in the AHL last year. He deserves a chance at least, especially at a low cap hit. IF it doesn't work out, you can try Gillies as well. IF BOTH don't work out, you can pursue a veteran.

There are more veteran NHL goalies than positions available, so I think you could find a guy cheaply partway through the year if everything falls apart, either through trade or UFA signing. If they have a higher cap hit, it actually makes sense to get them later in the year when most of their salary has been paid. So IF you still want a veteran like Ward or Lehtonen (not that I do), then you can justify trading for them later in the year to solidify the goaltending heading into the playoffs. Heck, you might even be able to coax out additional assets like draft picks to take the contract off the other team's hands.

If you're signing an UFA, keep the salary under $2 million. Anything more than that and you run with Rittich and Gillies until both falter.

The only way I would want a vet to come to Calgary would be if the same salary would go the other way. Bouma's cap hit going to Carolina in exchange for Ward's cap hit isn't bad at all.

Bouma has one more season at 2.2 million, while Ward has one more season at 3.3 million. A backup is likely going to cost the team more than 1 million.

Trading for Ward and not sending significant salary the other way? Not a chance. I definitely agree with that logic and don't want a bloated contract as a backup (2.5 million+). Some other options also make a bit of sense out there. I am ok with it as long as salary moves out, and the goalie only has a year left on his deal.

[Roof-Daddy]

The more I think about it, the more sense Eddie Lack makes.

He's been pretty bad in Carolina, but before that he was really good in Vancouver, where Glen Gulutzan was on the coaching staff.

The Canes also had their AHL affiliate take McCollum on loan last season where he was absolute lights out.

They have 3 goalies and we need a back up.

Maybe Bouma or Stajan and McCollum for Lack and a late round pick or something?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The more I think about it, the more sense Eddie Lack makes.

He's been pretty bad in Carolina, but before that he was really good in Vancouver, where Glen Gulutzan was on the coaching staff.

The Canes also had their AHL affiliate take McCollum on loan last season where he was absolute lights out.

They have 3 goalies and we need a back up.

Maybe Bouma or Stajan and McCollum for Lack and a late round pick or something?

Blech...no thanks. Don't like the player and I don't want to trade any assets for a goalies. BTW, no chance Carolina takes that deal.

I'll just quote what I posted in the Chad Johnson thread

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

OK, here's the list of UFA goaltenders who are over 25 (Rittich's age) and played around 20 games or more last year, along with last year's cap hit:

Ryan Miller, 36 games, $6 million
Curtis McElhinney, 21 games, $800 K.
Brian Elliott, 49 games, $2.5 million (I think that ship has sailed)
Chad Johnson, 36 games, $1.7 million (rumored to sign in Buffalo)
Steve Mason, 58 games, $4.1 million
Jonathan Bernier, 39 games, $4.15 million
Keith Kinkaid, 26 games, $750 K.
Anders Nilsson, 26 games, $1 million
Darcy Kuemper, 18 games, $1.55 million

The only guys I would consider on that list are Kinkaid and Nilsson as both had good numbers and are only 27 years old. They would also be had for less than $1.5 million without any problem.

It's either a guy like those two to give a comparable talent for the other goalies to compete with in camp, or you just give the job to the best of the two and put the other in the minors. If one doesn't work out, you have another quality goaltender to call up and give them a chance. If NEITHER work out, you make a trade for a goalie in the season.

Those are the realistic choices. Choose wisely.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The more I think about it, the more sense Eddie Lack makes.

He's been pretty bad in Carolina, but before that he was really good in Vancouver, where Glen Gulutzan was on the coaching staff.

The Canes also had their AHL affiliate take McCollum on loan last season where he was absolute lights out.

They have 3 goalies and we need a back up.

Maybe Bouma or Stajan and McCollum for Lack and a late round pick or something?

I'd only offer Bouma and McCollum. I like Stajan in Calgary for the one more year and they probably don't want him anyway (at their stage of team development).

[Muta]

Why not just give Rittich a shot at backup? He seems like he's ready. Let Gillies and MacDonald take care of Stockton. Don't think we need to hire a veteran here, a rookie might perform just as well.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Muta

Why not just give Rittich a shot at backup? He seems like he's ready. Let Gillies and MacDonald take care of Stockton. Don't think we need to hire a veteran here, a rookie might perform just as well.

At this point, that's my take as well. Good thing is that there are TWO guys capable of being the backup this year, and it just depends on individual play and development strategy. I think one of them should make the jump this year though, whether it's at the start of the year or not.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Blech...no thanks. Don't like the player and I don't want to trade any assets for a goalies. BTW, no chance Carolina takes that deal.

I'll just quote what I posted in the Chad Johnson thread



Those are the realistic choices. Choose wisely.

Frankly you have no idea what they would or wouldnt take so save your absolutes.

[SofaProfessor]

I think they should go with Gillies or Rittich as the backup. Yes, the team would be one injury away from a tandem with only a couple NHL games under their belt. Hopefully the backup gets a few games before any significant injury pops up. But, somehow, these guys need to get NHL experience or else we will be sitting here in 2 years when Mike Smith's contract is done wondering what to do because Gillies, Rittich, and Parsons have no significant NHL experience.

At some point the team has to take a bit of a leap of faith. Last year the Flames trusted two veteran goalies and look what that got... A 4 game first round exit thanks, largely, to goaltending.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SofaProfessor

I think they should go with Gillies or Rittich as the backup. Yes, the team would be one injury away from a tandem with only a couple NHL games under their belt. Hopefully the backup gets a few games before any significant injury pops up. But, somehow, these guys need to get NHL experience or else we will be sitting here in 2 years when Mike Smith's contract is done wondering what to do because Gillies, Rittich, and Parsons have no significant NHL experience.

At some point the team has to take a bit of a leap of faith. Last year the Flames trusted two veteran goalies and look what that got... A 4 game first round exit thanks, largely, to goaltending.

I brought this up in another thread but does it make sense to take a leap of faith in a year when the team has traded an unprotected 1st round pick?

The Flames need to ensure they make the playoffs next year

[ignite09]

I take it Karri Ramo's career is over? Can't find any current info on him.

[SofaProfessor]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I brought this up in another thread but does it make sense to take a leap of faith in a year when the team has traded an unprotected 1st round pick?

The Flames need to ensure they make the playoffs next year

Fair point and I understand that angle as well. However, at some point there needs to be a chance for Gillies and Rittich (as well as Parsons - a few more years down the road, granted) to get NHL experience. Bring in someone on a 1 year deal this season, fine. We're having the same talk next year. The can has just been kicked down the road a little further but no actual solution has been found.

Price, Lundqvist, Quick, Murray, and literally every other NHL goalie had zero games of experience at some point. Kind of a silly point to make and their journeys have all varied but, like it or not, there's going to be a moment where everyone has to hold their breath as one of the young goalies makes their jump to the NHL.