Arizona execution lasts nearly two hours

[Thor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I have no trouble with the death penalty for particularly heinous crimes. multiple murders, sexual crimes against Children where death is involved are examples where its time to escort the criminal off of this mortal coil, and only in crimes where you have multiple points of corroboration, DNA, witnesses to the crime, forensic evidence.

In this guys case, for some reason it doesn't disturb me much. The guy was scum plain and simple, and he did his best to twist the knife a little deeper with his final words.

I don't know if he suffered in this death or not, we can talk about how long it took, but he got a massive dose of sedatives and his body fought on.

But if they're going to continue to practice the death penalty they have to find a sure fire way of causing death. using a high speed car crusher would probably do it.

If you want people to suffer for their crimes, life without possibility of parole is the worst thing you can do to them. Like was mentioned before, I bet many people facing life in prison would opt to die with assisted suicide.

Prison is utter hell, and being inside for decades watching the world go by without you, knowing you will never be a part of it again, suffering the long lonely nights, the horrible people that surround you, this is PUNISHMENT.

Then add in that it costs more to execute people, innocent people die, its a terribly racist system, AND that its barbaric and has no place in the modern world and you have no reason to justify this horrible system that outside the US is only done by backwards nations.

Its not the place of governments to murder its own people, let them rot in prison and truly suffer, thats what they deserve.

[Daradon]

The arguments for capital punishment are always emotionally driven, whereas the arguments against it are logically driven. It's really not much of a debate at all to be honest. But we are still animals at heart and crave things like 'revenge' and seek out things like 'fairness'.

If I were to be completely honest to my own feelings, there are very emotional cases where I would agree with a lot of the comments like CC where we had capital punishment for truly heinous crimes. However, when I step back, the reason I'm not for it, is because no matter how you frame it, it causes a problem in the legal system.

Generally people who make those arguments say, 'well, we'll only use it in cases where there is absolutely no question that the person is guilty. Video evidence, perhaps the guy confessed, that sort of thing.' The only problem is, our system is already built on the principle of 'guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.' You can't have two types of guilty. Guilty and 'absolutely confirmed 100% guilty'? It makes no sense. The 'regular' guilty would have no meaning anymore. 'You mean I'm guilty but there could be a mistake?' You think things are messy in the legal system now, imagine a system like that.

Besides, plenty have people have been coerced into a confession. There's always a way an innocent person could find the chair.

Capital punishment has no place in a forward thinking society. It costs more, it's barbaric, it doesn't act as a deterrent, and it even kills innocent people. There is literally no logical reason for it. And even though I admit, if someone raped and murdered my child I probably wouldn't want to forgive them, and would hope they somehow died a gory death, it's times like that we need the system to be stronger and smarter than our emotions as fallible human beings.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

No offence, but please present your vision of how prisons and the justice system should work.

There's really no need for the condescending question. I just don't feel that the chance of an innocent person being executed justifies labeling capital punishment a failure. That being said, I am anti-death penalty as I feel it takes away society's moral high ground when it essentially stoops to eye for an eye "justice".

In addition to that, I feel that by being in favour of capital punishment, you allow those that perpetrate heinous crimes to imprint their sadistic nature upon you. As a law abiding citizen, I take no pleasure in the death and suffering of another person, so why would I want to allow some murdering scum the ability to change that?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Ark2

There's really no need for the condescending question. I just don't feel that the chance of an innocent person being executed justifies labeling capital punishment a failure. That being said, I am anti-death penalty as I feel it takes away society's moral high ground when it essentially stoops to eye for an eye "justice".

In addition to that, I feel that by being in favour of capital punishment, you allow those that perpetrate heinous crimes to imprint their sadistic nature upon you. As a law abiding citizen, I take no pleasure in the death and suffering of another person, so why would I want to allow some murdering scum the ability to change that?

If you took it as condescending, please know that is was not meant in that way. I was interested in you views.

From you posts it appeared you were anti-death penalty and anti-life sentence being "life". If I miss understood you, then please accept my apology.

I too am anti-death penalty, but I would be disingenuous if i didn't say I struggle with it when it comes to the crimes mentioned in the OP. It is easy to say that in that case capital punishment is justified.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

http://globalnews.ca/news/1470617/ar...lmost-2-hours/

Ridiculous. What a barbaric way for a society to act. And yeah, I know this is rare and is the exception....I just don't care. The death penalty is a black mark on whichever country uses it.

I don't think it is a deterrent, studies show that right? So what's the point? It costs a ton of money, and it can clearly be inhumane.

I haven't read the entire thread so my apologies if I repeat something others said...

The problem is that it isn't rare. Because of necessary end-use agreements companies now typically use to sell goods to customers when it comes to chemicals and what not European manufacturers of drugs will not supply the US penal system. Other companies simply on principal will not supply the drug(s) for this purpose. So as a result they are going to questionable/unknown suppliers, using questionable drug mixtures that aren't proven to work effectively etc etc etc. and this is the 3rd or 4th execution in a small space of time that has been botched and led to what appears to a violation of the 8th ammendment.

And I'll be damned but if you are condemning the guy to death for not following the laws and the constitution you damn well better be making sure you are following them when you carry out the sentence. I don't like John McCain but he is 100% correct that this was torture and a violation of the ammendment.

That doesn't even take into account that the estimates of over 10% of death row inmates are actually innocent. Or that a huge amount have actually been found to be mentally deficient to the point where it should be illegal for the state to seek the death penalty to begin with. Or that many were extremely messed up due to abuse and never stood a chance to begin with. Or the proven racism in the system when it comes to this sentence etc etc etc.

The fact of matter is, at least IMO, is it is not worth the loss of INNOCENT lives just to get vengeance. And that is all it is, vengeance. It has been proven over and over that it isn't a deterrent.

If you ever put the US on a list with China, Iran, Irag, Yemen and Afghanistan the population would be appalled. Except in this case apparently. Then it is something to be applauded somehow. The thing that surprises me is that Japan is top 10 in executions. Never knew that.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/16/justic...html?hpt=hp_c2

[Dion]

Americans want the punishment without the gory details, but that can't happen.

I thought about this as I read about yet another gruesome execution, this one in Arizona. Coming just months after another botched execution in Oklahoma, the episode had the condemned man gasping for breath and snorting for two hours after the lethal injection was administered. It was disgusting. It was, by any reasonable definition, cruel and unusual punishment. There are many reasons to oppose the death penalty. It’s not what civilized societies do, for one. And there’s always a chance of making a mistake. Just ask Kevin Martin, a D.C. man who spent 26 years in prison for raping and murdering a woman, only to be exonerated recently with the aid of DNA evidence (he had been paroled in 2009). But what if Martin had been convicted in a place like Oklahoma or Arizona? Would the answer just be, “oops”?

But the real lie here is the idea that there are peaceful deaths. We like to convince ourselves that our loved ones experience such things, and it’s true that some deaths are more painful than others. When it comes to capital punishment, Americans have an odd, hypocritical kind of blood lust. They want to take someone’s life, mostly out of vengeance (since there’s no consistent evidence at all that the death penalty prevents murder). But they want it to be civilized, peaceful even.

That’s where lethal injections got started – it’s so much easier for people to see a person lose consciousness, much like an old diseased pet being put down, than to, say, watch the person’s neck snap and his body swing from a noose. Firing squads, too, bring back images of an era of crude street justice, and put other people in the position of having to live with the knowledge that they shot another human being to death. We don’t like to see our pigs being slaughtered; we’d just rather pick up the pork chop. And we don’t want to see a human being – no matter how odious a person he or she may be – have the life snuffed out of them. We just want to feel satisfied by the result.

We can’t have it both ways. We can’t endorse capital punishment and then expect to be shielded from the loss of humanity that comes from its practice. The horrific episode in Arizona isn’t an argument for finding another way for the state to kill people. It’s one more reminder of why it’s time for the U.S. to join the civilized world and stop executions entirely.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...ty-needs-to-go

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't trust the motives of the people who would financially gain from the slavery. How long until paroles are denied because the prisoner is too valuable to production, or even worse, I could see people getting convicted to fill labour needs.

It happened in the US after the emancipation proclomation was enforced after the Civil War. The state would incarcerate people of african decent, and then lease or lend them out as labourers. Often times incarcerating innocent men for the sole purpose of filling labour needs. This happened up until the 1930's I believe. There is a documentary about it called Slavery By Another Name.

[Azure]

The state shouldn't have the right to execute its own citizens.

See, problem solved.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Thor

If you want people to suffer for their crimes, life without possibility of parole is the worst thing you can do to them. Like was mentioned before, I bet many people facing life in prison would opt to die with assisted suicide.

Prison is utter hell, and being inside for decades watching the world go by without you, knowing you will never be a part of it again, suffering the long lonely nights, the horrible people that surround you, this is PUNISHMENT.

Then add in that it costs more to execute people, innocent people die, its a terribly racist system, AND that its barbaric and has no place in the modern world and you have no reason to justify this horrible system that outside the US is only done by backwards nations.

Its not the place of governments to murder its own people, let them rot in prison and truly suffer, thats what they deserve.

I think you are figuratively putting yourself in the prisoners shoes and thus would be doing hard time. Some prisoners have spent a lifetime of revolving doors in custody since reformatory school and the only place they feel comfortable and can function is in jail. I don't think these people would be asking for assisted suicide.

Yeah, I'm still against capital punishment as well as most people who have a brain and use it.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah, I'm still against capital punishment as well as most people who have a brain and use it.

So your ok with a system that is inherently racist, death row is a perfect example of how if your a minority you are way more likely to be given a death penalty. We know we have put to death innocent people, this is a serious problem, it costs more to execute people, yet I'm the one lacking a "brain." ?

So I guess the entire western world, minus the USA is the ones who have this wrong on capital punishment? Guess this is one of the few times the US is the smart country and the EU, Canada, Australia, etc.. are the "morans..."

Great company to be in for the US:

Countries with death penalty in use, 2014:
Afghanistan, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, China, Cuba, Egypt, Guatemala, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, North Korea, South Korea, Lebanon, Malaysia, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Suriname, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Tonga, United Arab Emirates, United States, Vietnam, Yemen.

These are some of the nations, according to you, "nations with a brain and who use it..."

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Thor

So your ok with a system that is inherently racist, death row is a perfect example of how if your a minority you are way more likely to be given a death penalty. We know we have put to death innocent people, this is a serious problem, it costs more to execute people, yet I'm the one lacking a "brain." ?

So I guess the entire western world, minus the USA is the ones who have this wrong on capital punishment? Guess this is one of the few times the US is the smart country and the EU, Canada, Australia, etc.. are the "morans..."

Great company to be in for the US:

Countries with death penalty in use, 2014:
Afghanistan, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, China, Cuba, Egypt, Guatemala, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, North Korea, South Korea, Lebanon, Malaysia, Pakistan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Suriname, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Tonga, United Arab Emirates, United States, Vietnam, Yemen.

These are some of the nations, according to you, "nations with a brain and who use it..."

I think you misunderstood him Thor. He's saying he, like most people who have brains and use them, is against death row.

[Zevo]

[Thor]

lol Sorry Vulcan, was still on my first cup of coffee at work when I read your reply.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Thor

lol Sorry Vulcan, was still on my first cup of coffee at work when I read your reply.

I was giving kind of a mixed message there. Giving a different take on a convicted murderers reaction which wasn't exactly complementary to the murderer but still saying I didn't believe in capital punishment, so I could see a mistake in my intentions being made and thanks, I thought you just misread me. I've done the same before my first cup of java.

[Thor]

Yeah, but I know a few people that have been incarcerated in Canada, one that was in 5 years in provincial prison, it damaged him in so many ways, he was so ####ed after getting out and he shared with me some of his painful stories.

Its torture, and this is a guy who had a short sentence, sure some guys adjust and can live the best they can, but you can never take away the feeling of being in good with no hope of leaving ever, its hell, no matter how much you adjust to it.

DID ANYONE SEE SHAWSHANK

[FlamesAddiction]

On an ethical level, I am not opposed to the death penalty, but on a practical level I sure am.

I totally understand the desire for revenge and retribution from the victims, but I just don't trust the justice system to pull it off correctly each time. If even one innocent person was executed, then it isn't worth it.

[Vulcan]

I think the word and mind set I'm looking for is institutionalized. It's a way of survival. It can happen in prison or in the forces where they no longer feel they can function in regular society. reference to Shawshank too

At what point in time does an incarcerated criminal stop thinking about being institutionalized and become institutionalized? Some never do. Others do because it’s the only way they will survive in the event of life without parole. There are prisoners with no family on the outside, who spend many years “inside”, and one day they receive the news they are being paroled. Going in must suck. Being forced out must be worse.

http://krackedkillers.wordpress.com/...tionalization/

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Thor

Yeah, but I know a few people that have been incarcerated in Canada, one that was in 5 years in provincial prison, it damaged him in so many ways, he was so ####ed after getting out and he shared with me some of his painful stories.

Its torture, and this is a guy who had a short sentence, sure some guys adjust and can live the best they can, but you can never take away the feeling of being in good with no hope of leaving ever, its hell, no matter how much you adjust to it.

DID ANYONE SEE SHAWSHANK

So I have to ask, what did your friend do? Because this all goes towards context. In Canada, 5 years isn't usually a short sentence.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So I have to ask, what did your friend do? Because this all goes towards context. In Canada, 5 years isn't usually a short sentence.

The way the justice system is set up, he could have spent the majority of that sentence in jail, rather than prison, an altogether uglier animal.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So I have to ask, what did your friend do? Because this all goes towards context. In Canada, 5 years isn't usually a short sentence.

Vehicular manslaughter, he was drunk, crashed into a car killing one passenger, the male. They had just been married as well, a horrible thing.

He was out after 5 years on good behavior with strict limits on what he could do while out on parole, but I think the total sentence was around 8-10 years, can't recall though.