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Old 01-12-2016, 12:18 PM   #21
PsYcNeT
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Ownership will become cumbersome once self-driving cars are conclusively proven to be safer and less accident prone than human drivers.

The insurance cost difference between automated vehicles and Joe Bumblefoot will likely be a major factor in near-total adoption of automated cars.
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:44 PM   #22
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Ownership will become cumbersome once self-driving cars are conclusively proven to be safer and less accident prone than human drivers.
There's nothing stopping people from owning self-driving cars. The future debate is whether they will be privately owned or used in fleet service.

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The insurance cost difference between automated vehicles and Joe Bumblefoot will likely be a major factor in near-total adoption of automated cars.
Which means privately owned self-driving cars are cheaper to operate as well. Historically, anything that made cars cheaper to operate has increased their ownership rate.

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Old 01-12-2016, 12:51 PM   #23
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There's nothing stopping people from owning self-driving cars. The future debate is whether they will be privately owned or used in fleet service.

Which means privately owned self-driving cars are cheaper to operate as well. Historically, anything that made cars cheaper to operate has increased their ownership rate.
I was responding to the comments about "car people" not giving up manually driven vehicles.
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Old 01-12-2016, 09:48 PM   #24
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All in all, 17 companies already have prototypes of self-driving cars. As the examples above indicate, they’re in various stages of readiness. Society, however, is not very ready at all.
California, Nevada, Texas, and Michigan are the only states that have enacted regulations that permit driverless cars on public roads - for testing purposes only, and under strict conditions. Eleven states have gone in the other direction, passing laws banning driverless cars. Other states are still wrestling with how to regulate driverless cars. The federal government is not considering any legislation or regulations concerning driverless cars. (That probably means they haven't figured out a clever way to tax them yet.)
http://askbobrankin.com/ready_for_dr...J1PrT9IRfeP6SL
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:00 AM   #25
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I'd be pretty surprised if 60% of the congestion in downtown Calgary is caused by human accidents. I rarely hear of accidents downtown. Where did that statistic come from? I'm suspicious...
I have searched and searched and cannot find it. Found another that said 30% of inner city congestion is people searching for a parking spot though. Regardless, take that number as suspect
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:05 AM   #26
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There's nothing stopping people from owning self-driving cars. The future debate is whether they will be privately owned or used in fleet service.

Which means privately owned self-driving cars are cheaper to operate as well. Historically, anything that made cars cheaper to operate has increased their ownership rate.
Think about it this way.


Ownership - paying for a car used maybe 20% at most, plus upkeep and fuel on a scale of 1

Service - no taxi wage plus scale makes this option way cheaper than ownership almost no matter how you look at it.


The reason car ownership rates increase with cost reduction is convenience. When scaled, automated transportation services will be almost as convenient
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Old 01-13-2016, 01:42 AM   #27
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Think about it this way.


Ownership - paying for a car used maybe 20% at most, plus upkeep and fuel on a scale of 1
Which based on a new vehicle is somewhere in the range of 50c/km in Canada driving 24K km/year.

http://www.caa.ca/wp-content/uploads...h_2013_web.pdf

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Service - no taxi wage plus scale makes this option way cheaper than ownership almost no matter how you look at it.
Human costs are only about half of a taxi fare:

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...iCostIndex.pdf

Halve a typical taxi rate and that's still 85c/km. That doesn't include the cost of self-driving equipment, which remains unknown.

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The reason car ownership rates increase with cost reduction is convenience. When scaled, automated transportation services will be almost as convenient
It unlikely because if the fleet size is scaled for fast response during peak times it would be mostly idle and under-utilized for the rest of the day.
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Old 01-13-2016, 06:12 AM   #28
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I've got the answer! Surge pricing!!
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Old 01-13-2016, 06:51 AM   #29
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Serious question, when your self driving car gets into an accident, because of a malfunction, does your insurance get jacked? I've been wondering about all these cars that park themselves. If one of them were to ding a car while you're sitting there with your hands off the wheel, is it an at fault accident on you?

I know that under our insurance, mechanical failures causing accidents have been put on the owner as they are the result of deficient maintenance.
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Old 01-13-2016, 07:45 AM   #30
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Serious question, when your self driving car gets into an accident, because of a malfunction, does your insurance get jacked? I've been wondering about all these cars that park themselves. If one of them were to ding a car while you're sitting there with your hands off the wheel, is it an at fault accident on you?

I know that under our insurance, mechanical failures causing accidents have been put on the owner as they are the result of deficient maintenance.
I would guess mechanical failure would be on the owner, but software/firmware failure would be on the manufacturer.
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Old 01-13-2016, 08:11 AM   #31
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Insurance and liability is absolutely going to be a tough one to figure out. One good argument I heard is that eventually accidents will go way down anyway, since human error is the cause of most of them. The transition phase is going to be the toughest to get through though.
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:06 AM   #32
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I don't think there is anything more currently hyped than autonomous cars.

Izabella Kaminsa (FT) does a real critical number on why the economics of autonomous cars, especially if they are rented through an agency like Uber, may never work out.

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/10/2...ly-make-sense/
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:10 AM   #33
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I would guess mechanical failure would be on the owner, but software/firmware failure would be on the manufacturer.
This is part of the issue. That hasn't been resolved. Likely, it'll be he manufacturers. Google has already said they'd cover
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:26 AM   #34
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Forget self driving cars. How about self driving trucks? Say you go shopping for a big ticket item that won't fit in your car and you don't want to pay the store $80 to take it home. Summon a self driving truck that walks you through positioning and securing the load. After it's all packed up you send it home. When you arrive home you unpack it and send it back to pool of delivery trucks for which you have a membership.
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Old 01-13-2016, 09:58 AM   #35
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Do these new autonomous cars come with on-board tasers and flamethrowers to deal with the untamed, and unemployed masses that will be looting rampantly?
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Old 01-13-2016, 10:03 AM   #36
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I don't think there is anything more currently hyped than autonomous cars.

Izabella Kaminsa (FT) does a real critical number on why the economics of autonomous cars, especially if they are rented through an agency like Uber, may never work out.

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/10/2...ly-make-sense/
Peter12 - "I don't believe in hype"


Can't get to the article due to the site being awful and wanting my info
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Old 01-13-2016, 10:11 AM   #37
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Serious question, when your self driving car gets into an accident, because of a malfunction, does your insurance get jacked? I've been wondering about all these cars that park themselves. If one of them were to ding a car while you're sitting there with your hands off the wheel, is it an at fault accident on you?

I know that under our insurance, mechanical failures causing accidents have been put on the owner as they are the result of deficient maintenance.
I'd imagine insurance rules completely change. Insurance being covered under the "leasing party" for instance (like a car2go system) probably would be the case for leased vehicles. I have no idea in regards to self owned cars. I could even imagine self driving cars would be set up to go receive maintenance on a regular basis from a dealer/manufacturer and your car might be completely replaced if an issue arises. (Other than sitting inside/usage, what other ways would a self driving car break down mechanically that's the fault of an owner?)

If anything, I could imagine a set up similar to Tesla where their car is basically a skateboard with batteries and a chassis tossed on top. You'd own your own "cockpit/chassis" which gets inserted into a "vehicle" they send over. Imagine getting to a location where parking is a removed locked cockpit you own. The rest of the vehicles just pick up other individuals and their cockpits and meander along. Similar in nature to you borrowing a shopping cart, but different. You'd need less cars manufactured, you'd save space and you'd have no headache of owning a stationary car. You would also reduce the empty space that most cars have (ie: 1/4 occupants) and could roll out 1/1 cars, or whatever size is necessary.

The future holds a lot of interesting crazy stuff.
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Old 01-13-2016, 10:27 AM   #38
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Buddy took a Tesla out in the snow storm before Christmas for a test drive on Deerfoot. Said it felt like driving with someone that had three glasses of wine. He had to grab the wheel only three times over a long stretch. He was absolutely impressed with how well it did in those conditions.
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:32 AM   #39
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The California DMV's website has reports from several manufacturers, parts suppliers and Google regarding the number of times their autonomous driving vehicles had to be manually overriden for safety or hardware failure during the course of testing over 2015:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...agement_report
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Old 01-13-2016, 11:46 AM   #40
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No one needs parking anymore if this could come true. Car drives you to work and goes back home, then comes back to your work place at certain hour. It'll be a congestion nightmare but you don't have to pay for exorbitant downtown parking.

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