Making a Murderer - NetFlix series

[Methanolic]

Overturned? Yeeeeeeeah?............... So should I just go back to my cell?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Jesus Christ you are a Robot.

OMG this is so stupid. Jesus Christ was not a robot.


He was an android. Everyone knows that.

[Wormius]

This seems so clearly messed up.

The investigators did not have any ill motive, the judge wrote, but rather "an intentional and concerted effort to trick Dassey into confessing."

Doesn't that exactly describe "ill motive"? The judge, even though he overturned the conviction, seems to be making a special effort not to speak unkindly about those people involved in the conviction in the first place.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Wormius

This seems so clearly messed up.



Doesn't that exactly describe "ill motive"? The judge, even though he overturned the conviction, seems to be making a special effort not to speak unkindly about those people involved in the conviction in the first place.

What kind of crazy leverage does this podunk police department have on everyone?

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by socalwingfan

Just in time for Summer Slam

I actually laughed out loud at this post, well done.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Locke

What kind of crazy leverage does this podunk police department have on everyone?

With stuff like this, one has to wonder.

Duffin also criticized Dassey's first attorney, Leonard Kachinsky, who the judge wrote, was excited to be on the case because of all the media attention. In May 2006, state investigators interviewed Dassey but Kachinsky didn't attend.

Duffin wrote that Kachinsky's conduct throughout the case was tactically and ethically inexcusable. However, it was not a conflict of interest.

It seems like every criticism Judge Duffin makes, he kind of goes back and softens it a little.

Duffin: This is the possibly the worst miscarriage of justice that I have ever seen, and this police department could be the most corrupt ever. But they did the best they could under the circumstances and can't be faulted

[AcGold]

Typical lawyer speak. The longer someone speaks without making their point clear the higher chance they were or are a lawyer.

Most politicians that were lawyers are the best at this, talk talk talk but don't actually say anything and don't actually take a stance

[Nage Waza]

Brendan Dassey is to be released while the state appeals. Good news for the innocent - this trial has some very close similarities to the Amanda Knox case (who has been officially vindicated). For some good laughs, have a read at the Knox thread and some of the people claiming she was guilty. It demonstrates how susceptible we are to suggestion, even when it makes no sense (there are many studies on this subject, if you are interested).

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/us...reed.html?_r=0

[Drake]

Appeals Court blocks Dassey's release.

http://www.cp24.com/entertainment-ne...ssey-1.3165388

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Drake

Appeals Court blocks Dassey's release.

http://www.cp24.com/entertainment-ne...ssey-1.3165388

####ING WHY???

That kid doesnt have two braincells to rub together, his testimony was wholly inaccurate and forced under illegal Police coercion.

What kind of Cabal is running this podunk town?

[Wormius]

Looks like a new update for Avery.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3515259/st..._campaign=2015

After months of intense work, Steven Avery‘s lawyer, Kathleen Zellner, has filed a 1,272-page motion accusing Teresa Halbach’s ex-boyfriend of killing her; Zellner has also requested a new trial for Making a Murderer subject Avery “in the interests of justice.”

[Ashasx]

Just finished season 2. I notice that it's not reviewing as well as season 1, but I thought it was even better and more interesting. I thought I was frustrated during season 1, but this season is even worse.

This has nothing to do with evidence or justice anymore. The prosecution side always starts and ends their arguments with the atrocities that were committed against Teresa Halbach, but that is completely ignoring justice. If any jury was presented with this new evidence, not a single person would believe Steve Avery and Brendan Dassey to be guilty.

I also enjoyed the new personalities this season. I think Kathleen Zellner's twitter doesn't present her in the greatest light but she is absolutely brilliant. I think the standout was Laura Nirider though. I can't imagine a more difficult and stressful job than presenting in front of the 7th Circuit Court twice. These people really are inspiring.

Also, what an absolute scumbag Ken Kratz is.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Wormius

This seems so clearly messed up.



Doesn't that exactly describe "ill motive"? The judge, even though he overturned the conviction, seems to be making a special effort not to speak unkindly about those people involved in the conviction in the first place.

A lot of judges do that to decrease the odds of their rulings being overturned. They want to avoid being perceived as biased against any of the parties.

[KTrain]

A lot more family members joining the "cast" this year. Looking for their own 15 minutes of fame?

This had me wondering if the family are paid for the documentary? They're obviously making some money and gifts off of the celebrity and they wouldn't have the new lawyer without the show, but with almost everyone in the family being accused at some point, it feels like it wouldn't be worth it without being paid.

[Ashasx]

I didn't really see a lot of new family members. Sure before they go to the prison and visit Steven, you see some new family members but I don't think they are intentionally trying to be on film.

It seems likely they are being paid something, but when you see Steven Avery's father still working at his age and the home they live in, I can't imagine it's much.

[Wormius]

I know they explained it a little bit, but in the first season Jerry and Dean were portrayed in such a great light and with supposed to be Avery's saviours. Zellner kind of throws them under the bus and they get cast in a pretty dismal light this season. I suppose she needed to cast some doubt on their competence in the role, but she seemed a bit harsh when speaking about Avery's defense team there.


I am still curious what compelling evidence the prosecution side had they made this all a slam dunk for them. If the show is curated as a mouthpiece for the defence's position of Avery being framed, what did the prosecution really have in court that would compel a guilty verdict.

[KTrain]

Brendan's stepfather got a lot more screen time this season than last. I also don't remember seeing Avery's blonde cousin in the first season either but maybe I missed her. She was visiting the rallies and being interviewed without adding anything to the case.

[White Out 403]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I don't know if Steven Avery is innocent. At all. At best I'd give it a coin flip. But the way the state, prosecution, and legal system acted is so beyond the pale the conviction should not stand. Taking away a persons freedom and for so long should require a basic code of ethics on the laws part, and it was trampled on by Kratz, and the corrupt (allegedly) Manitowac County "police". The tampering of the jury pool by Kratz, the same officers who framed him up the first time and being sued participating in the investigation... it's all so disgusting and something you'd expect from a 3rd world country where justice doesn't exist.

Even if you think Avery is 100% guilty by allowing the state to convict someone the way they did means everyones freedom is at risk.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I know they explained it a little bit, but in the first season Jerry and Dean were portrayed in such a great light and with supposed to be Avery's saviours. Zellner kind of throws them under the bus and they get cast in a pretty dismal light this season. I suppose she needed to cast some doubt on their competence in the role, but she seemed a bit harsh when speaking about Avery's defense team there.

I am still curious what compelling evidence the prosecution side had they made this all a slam dunk for them. If the show is curated as a mouthpiece for the defence's position of Avery being framed, what did the prosecution really have in court that would compel a guilty verdict.

I noticed this as well. I think she has to because just like Avery's prior lawyers, you're arguing a tough case and sometimes its helpful to be able to fall back on:

"The prior people were idiots."

Jerry and Dean were not. But they still failed. So you take that failure and spin it as best you can right now. Because thats the state of affairs, whats happening 'right now.'

The judge is always looking for the new evidence, and they're presenting it and some old evidence in a different light, but being able to also say that the past defence team missed this or that is also like spinning a new tale.

Ultimately I think its just gamesmanship. Zellner strikes me as someone who really knows how to play the game. And she has to because you have to imagine that someone who makes a living by making prosecutors and judges look like morons has to be on point. Every point.

[Ashasx]

Jerry and Dean both acknowledged Zellner's claims in season 2 and said they weren't offended by it. Zellner is simply doing her due diligence to explore all possible avenues to get the case back in court.

Of course, the fact that the state not only withheld but willfully disguised evidence should be reason enough.