"Elite" Minor Hockey

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Don't mind that. It was more like (at not his own kid) "Get up - you're not hurt" or commenting on specific kids' effort. Or there was the time he kept telling his defenceman kid to carry the puck out when the coach had specifically asked the kid to headman the puck out.

God I hate that. If you want to coach, there are plenty of opportunities to do so. Otherwise, let the people giving their time pass on some different knowledge.

Can you imagine having a parent sitting at the back of a teachers classroom shouting and contradicting the teacher?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MattyC

God I hate that. If you want to coach, there are plenty of opportunities to do so. Otherwise, let the people giving their time pass on some different knowledge.

Can you imagine having a parent sitting at the back of a teachers classroom shouting and contradicting the teacher?

In fairness, he may not have known he was contradicting (but what coach doesn't tell his defencemen to headman the puck up the ice as the first option).

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But my biggest peeve is cowbells. The CMHA actually has banned noisemakers but some parents didn't get the memo. I was at a timbits game once where some lady had a cowbell and rang it at every save and every goal. There were no actual goalies, so that damned thing was going off every ten seconds. Even now, in PW, there are parents who bring them and will be ringing them for goals in a rout.

There is a group of woman who make shakers every season with the team colors and put the players name and number on them to sell to help fund raise. Idea being you buy your kids name and number. It does get loud, but it gets loud at Flames games at the Saddle Dome as well, so it doesn't really bother me.

I do think it is poor taste when parents keep cheering in a route. My son's novice team beat another team 24-0 in a tournament before Christmas. My son scored goal 24 late in the game and immitated Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce's TD celebration by reaching back to pull an arrow out of his quiver and pretended to fire off an arrow. I had a little talk with him about sportsmanship after the game.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

There is a group of woman who make shakers every season with the team colors and put the players name and number on them to sell to help fund raise. Idea being you buy your kids name and number. It does get loud, but it gets loud at Flames games at the Saddle Dome as well, so it doesn't really bother me.

Shakers might be OK but just so you know, the Calgary rinks have banned noisemakers and you may be asked to put them away. Probably only if the other team or its parents complain.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

In fairness, he may not have known he was contradicting (but what coach doesn't tell his defencemen to headman the puck up the ice as the first option).

This is why it's just as important to inform the parents of a few things before the season as a coach (whether the coach is another parent or an outsider):

- Explain your philosophies and the basics of what you will be trying to teach the kids. Having the parents understand what you're trying to do is key.

- We would, in a nice way, proactively tell the parents to keep their coaching to themselves. We are the coaches, and any advice a parent looks to give could be contradictory. If a parent has questions or wants to help the improvement of their kid, go to the coach first and discuss your concerns. This way, your post game comments can be relevant and supportive rather than potentially confusing. We would always say that we are happy to discuss anything with parents as long as things remain civil. Yelling and stamping of the feet will be met with a swift turn-and-leave.

- Suggestions to the coaches for line combos, powerplay structures or really any part of the coaches will be flat out ignored. We may stand there and nod our heads, but we're not listening.

It's not a "I know hockey better than anyone so dont question" thing, it's an attempt at consistency for the kids and respect for each individuals roles.
Most leagues give a bunch of rules for coach-parent interaction (24 hour contact rule, talk to managers not coaches, etc..). I (We) always found those rules to actually drive tension and give idiot coaches an excuse to avoid contact with parents almost completely. We would basically say "Hey, these are technically the rules, but we don't want to deal with that nonsense. We're all adults and we're happy to talk with people anytime about their kids or the team overall, as long as the conversations remain reasonable. If you're angry about something, we suggest collecting your thoughts and coming to us when you're more calm. Otherwise we have to impose these rules which we really don't want to do."

Anyways, this is getting away from the "Elite Hockey" thing. Just want to point out that as your kid goes to higher levels, they take parents out of coaching and bring in people for specific reasons. As a parent, if you want your kid to get the most benefit out of these things, you have to let them go into it open. Even if you think the coach is a moron (there are plenty), telling a kid not to pay attention and do their own thing doesn't help anyone, hurts the team overall, and thus stunts the growth of the kids. Kids learn best when they enjoy what they do. Drawing the ire of coaches and other players through selfishness provoked by a parents need to see their kid on for each PP minute or whatever will not help them.

Not to mention, all coaches talk. All. If you're an idiot parent, word gets around pretty fast and it will keep your kid off teams they could rightfully deserve to make. Even if the kid is a gem of a human, having a crappy parent will deter some. I've seen it first hand multiple times. You want to give your kid an extra edge? Start by looking at yourself and how you treat them, their teammates, and their coaches.

/tldr

Parents, let coaches do their jobs and don't be idiots. Sounds pretty simple but apparently it's not.

EDIT: I'm also all for noisemakers . It's a sport, it's supposed to be fun and for the kids. And there's no doubt they enjoy it more when the fans (ie their parents) are loud. Use them to cheer your team, not jeer the others. If other parents are finding them annoying it's usually one of two reasons a) you're being obnoxious with it or b) their kids team is losing and their butthurt about it.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Shakers might be OK but just so you know, the Calgary rinks have banned noisemakers and you may be asked to put them away. Probably only if the other team or its parents complain.

Rinks have banned them? Or Calgary Minor Hockey has banned them? Played in a lot of Calgary rinks in spring hockey with no complaints.

[TimSJ]

Just getting the introduction to the Elite Spring hockey this year.. My son is a 2008 kid and is a pretty good player in his age group. has been doing an outside program a day or two a week for the winter and will be playing in their spring program.. It is mainly developmental with them going away to one tournament in Halifax in May and a couple of games against some other spring teams that are around.

Yesterday i get a call from a coach of a team in Boston they have heard aobut my kid and want him to come and play for them in 2 tournaments this spring one in Boston and one in NH. not really looking for any money out of us either just jersey and socks waiving registration and tournament fees.

Crazy to me that at 6 years old he is getting recruited to play on teams and in tournaments..

He is excited of course and dad is pretty proud of his boy.

[Northendzone]

personally, i don't mind some noisemakers like cowbells and what not - but be respectful of the kids on the ice - if one team is losing by 6 goals, it is time to put away the cowbell.

I do not like is the parent right behind the oppositions goal, banging on the glass when a goal has been scored - but i am likely hypersensitive about that because my kid is a goalie and I be annoyed if he was having a tough game, and some parent was banging on the glass behind him after his kids team scored the 8th goal of the game......

When i was coaching, i always tried to ignore the refing as somethimes you just need to work thru the game - and i figure as a coach if you are starting to blame refing or get frustrated on teh bench the kids are just waiting to feed off of that negative energy......

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

personally, i don't mind some noisemakers like cowbells and what not - but be respectful of the kids on the ice - if one team is losing by 6 goals, it is time to put away the cowbell.

I do not like is the parent right behind the oppositions goal, banging on the glass when a goal has been scored - but i am likely hypersensitive about that because my kid is a goalie and I be annoyed if he was having a tough game, and some parent was banging on the glass behind him after his kids team scored the 8th goal of the game......

When i was coaching, i always tried to ignore the refing as somethimes you just need to work thru the game - and i figure as a coach if you are starting to blame refing or get frustrated on teh bench the kids are just waiting to feed off of that negative energy......

We had a opposing team's dad like that in my kid's last game. Not content to sit in the area with the rest of his team's parents. He had to stand in the o-zone each period. He did a big fist pump and happy dance when his team scored when he was at "our end". He got quite the stink-eye from me, and then, when our tema returned the favour a minute later he wasn't quite so exuberant.

I don't mind the coaches discussing things with the refs - they are kids too, and learning to discuss with coaches is part of it. But it should be a question, not an argument, and it should be really short.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't mind the coaches discussing things with the refs - they are kids too, and learning to discuss with coaches is part of it. But it should be a question, not an argument, and it should be really short.

In our leagues, refs are generally in the same age range as us coaches (mid-20s), and in my experience, it's usually them who drives up the intensity with nonsensical, passive aggressiveness. If you explain to them a rule that they are employing incorrectly, it's like you've insulted the very fibre of their being. Like c'mon, we're all humans here, can't we have an adult interaction?

"Ref, isn't the rule this..?"
"Nope, not how I call it."
'But, that's the rule"
"Not in the book"
*Brings out book* (They REALLY love it when you do this)
"Don't have time for this coach"
"Then call it right"
"I'll call what I see" **skates away, still with no explanation for what happened.
...

This is usually when the shouting happens. It's really difficult to keep composed when someone is being just a straight up a-hole for no apparent reason. We've had 25-30 year olds tell 14 year old team captains to "F--- off". We've had a player kicked out for a hit the ref (or linesmen) didnt see (which wasn't an ejectionable offense, it was purely because the kid was hurt) and tell us that if we didn't tell him who hit the kid, he was going to kick out our captain (and best player). Some of them are a complete joke with no intention of doing things right or treating anyone else with respect when we have to tip toe around what we say to them. Really, getting even mediocre reffing at the bantam level is a blessing.

The kids do feed off your negativity though, and to keep them focused on the game and not the ref, when you as a coach does have to worry about the ref sometimes, is a difficult line to walk.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by MattyC

In our leagues, refs are generally in the same age range as us coaches (mid-20s), and in my experience, it's usually them who drives up the intensity with nonsensical, passive aggressiveness. If you explain to them a rule that they are employing incorrectly, it's like you've insulted the very fibre of their being. Like c'mon, we're all humans here, can't we have an adult interaction?

"Ref, isn't the rule this..?"
"Nope, not how I call it."
'But, that's the rule"
"Not in the book"
*Brings out book* (They REALLY love it when you do this)
"Don't have time for this coach"
"Then call it right"
"I'll call what I see" **skates away, still with no explanation for what happened.
...

This is usually when the shouting happens. It's really difficult to keep composed when someone is being just a straight up a-hole for no apparent reason. We've had 25-30 year olds tell 14 year old team captains to "F--- off". We've had a player kicked out for a hit the ref (or linesmen) didnt see (which wasn't an ejectionable offense, it was purely because the kid was hurt) and tell us that if we didn't tell him who hit the kid, he was going to kick out our captain (and best player). Some of them are a complete joke with no intention of doing things right or treating anyone else with respect when we have to tip toe around what we say to them. Really, getting even mediocre reffing at the bantam level is a blessing.

The kids do feed off your negativity though, and to keep them focused on the game and not the ref, when you as a coach does have to worry about the ref sometimes, is a difficult line to walk.

I agree with pretty much all of this, however any coach who pulls out a rule book deserves an immiediate game ejection. I have never had a coach pull one out on me, and hopefully never will. Coaches should be focused on coaching, yelling at the Ref will not get your team anywhere, and most decent coaches know this. Refs also should not be expected to justify EVERY call to a team as some coaches expect, some coaches are ridiculous this way, it is not a debate contest it is a hockey game.

Having controll of the game is so much more then making the calls, it is about posititve interactions and respecting the players and coaches and enjoying what you are doing. So many Refs act as if they are shift supervisors at a Wal Mart on a power trip and it is embarassing. Anyways reffing in minor hockey can be debated till the cows come home.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by TimSJ

Just getting the introduction to the Elite Spring hockey this year.. My son is a 2008 kid and is a pretty good player in his age group. has been doing an outside program a day or two a week for the winter and will be playing in their spring program.. It is mainly developmental with them going away to one tournament in Halifax in May and a couple of games against some other spring teams that are around.

Yesterday i get a call from a coach of a team in Boston they have heard aobut my kid and want him to come and play for them in 2 tournaments this spring one in Boston and one in NH. not really looking for any money out of us either just jersey and socks waiving registration and tournament fees.

Crazy to me that at 6 years old he is getting recruited to play on teams and in tournaments..

He is excited of course and dad is pretty proud of his boy.

You might want to ask who is paying for this then. The other parents may not be pleased that the money they put up is being used to pay for the ringer who "doesn't even practise with the team", "isn't that good anyways" and "doesn't back check" parents can be very critical of kid playing for free. Not only that but the "hird gun" can develop a bad reputation among your local hockey community, and word spreads fast in kids hockey. "Too good for us" and "Looking for the best deal", are just two phrases you will be associated with.

In the end you have to do what is best for you and your kid and everyones circumstances are different but be careful. You will also have to decide where to draw your own lines, this is not an issue if you have the time and money, today it is a road trip down to Boston, but tomorrow you are asked to play in Chicago and Florida and next year it is a two week trip to Europe. Spring hockey is as much a competition amongst the parents as it is competition for the kids.

[Northendzone]

i continue to look for a spring team for my son to play on and i hope that it will be a team where he fits, but is also pushed to be better at the same time......seems i needed to be thinking about this process in October - not December as some teams rosters are set already.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I agree with pretty much all of this, however any coach who pulls out a rule book deserves an immiediate game ejection. I have never had a coach pull one out on me, and hopefully never will. Coaches should be focused on coaching, yelling at the Ref will not get your team anywhere, and most decent coaches know this. Refs also should not be expected to justify EVERY call to a team as some coaches expect, some coaches are ridiculous this way, it is not a debate contest it is a hockey game.

Having controll of the game is so much more then making the calls, it is about posititve interactions and respecting the players and coaches and enjoying what you are doing. So many Refs act as if they are shift supervisors at a Wal Mart on a power trip and it is embarassing. Anyways reffing in minor hockey can be debated till the cows come home.

I agree for sure, I only remember my buddy bringing out the rule book once. And it was because the ref was consistently penalizing us for a particular call (can't remember what) that wasn't a penalty. And when you tell us it's not in the book when it is... well it just shows you don't know what you're talking about. Ejection for wanting the rules to be called properly? That right there is exactly what I'm talking about. The conversation is always calm until the Ref is in the wrong and then it's like the Family Guy Donkey:

"Nope nope, Kevin Bacon was not in Footloose. Nope Nope NOPE NOPE NOPE HEEHAWWWW HEEEHAWWW"

We had one guy calling 4-min headshots for almost any hit. Miss a few fine, but by the end of the game almost every penalty was headshot (for both teams) and 100% of those were 4 mins. The rule is 4 min for intentional headshots. Conversation was this:

"Ref, isn't it only 4 if it's intentional?"
"Call is 4 mins"
"Every call has been 4 min"
"That's the rule"
"Only if it's intentional. Are you saying every hit in this game has been an intentional headshot?"
*begins skating away with a s***-eating grin and no more conversation. And strong urge to literally throw the rule book at him is all-consuming.

Kids at lower levels make mistakes. We would regularly have 1 of about 5 or 6 guys, I would say 2 of them were decent, with others not being just bad but real-life aholes where the game is about them. What type of a grown man tells a respectful 14 year old to eff off? That shouldn't be tolerated whatsoever. If we or a player said that to him it would be a suspension for abuse of officials.

The worst part is Hockey Calgary will hear no wrong about their officials.

/Ref rant.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by MattyC

In our leagues, refs are generally in the same age range as us coaches (mid-20s), and in my experience, it's usually them who drives up the intensity with nonsensical, passive aggressiveness. If you explain to them a rule that they are employing incorrectly, it's like you've insulted the very fibre of their being. Like c'mon, we're all humans here, can't we have an adult interaction?

"Ref, isn't the rule this..?"
"Nope, not how I call it."
'But, that's the rule"
"Not in the book"
*Brings out book* (They REALLY love it when you do this)
"Don't have time for this coach"
"Then call it right"
"I'll call what I see" **skates away, still with no explanation for what happened.
...

This is usually when the shouting happens. It's really difficult to keep composed when someone is being just a straight up a-hole for no apparent reason. We've had 25-30 year olds tell 14 year old team captains to "F--- off". We've had a player kicked out for a hit the ref (or linesmen) didnt see (which wasn't an ejectionable offense, it was purely because the kid was hurt) and tell us that if we didn't tell him who hit the kid, he was going to kick out our captain (and best player). Some of them are a complete joke with no intention of doing things right or treating anyone else with respect when we have to tip toe around what we say to them. Really, getting even mediocre reffing at the bantam level is a blessing.

The kids do feed off your negativity though, and to keep them focused on the game and not the ref, when you as a coach does have to worry about the ref sometimes, is a difficult line to walk.

I believe doing this during a game is an automatic ejection. But I don't have my rule book in front of me.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by #-3

I believe doing this during a game is an automatic ejection. But I don't have my rule book in front of me.

I'm pretty sure it's correct. I think my partner offered to grab it and was threatened with ejection.

Either way, the fact that you can't bring out a rule book is just another way to protect refs from responsibility (coupled with avoiding delays of the game, which means it would make more sense for a delay of game bench-minor than an ejections).

But that's pretty low on my list of transgressions with Hockey Calgary/Alberta/Canada. That list begins with taking hitting out of PeeWee, which I think is full-blown idiocy.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm pretty sure it's correct. I think my partner offered to grab it and was threatened with ejection.

Either way, the fact that you can't bring out a rule book is just another way to protect refs from responsibility (coupled with avoiding delays of the game, which means it would make more sense for a delay of game bench-minor than an ejections).

But that's pretty low on my list of transgressions with Hockey Calgary/Alberta/Canada. That list begins with taking hitting out of PeeWee, which I think is full-blown idiocy.

Why? Hitting will be out of all minor hockey lower then AA within the next 10 years, and really so it should be. Heck, hitting is nearly out of the NHL yet for some reason people still believe that 12 yr old kids should be able to go out there and rail road 11 yr old kids. There is no good argument for having hitting in minor hockey, especially at any level lower then AA Bantam.

[Northendzone]

In your scenario think of the first yr bantam kid trying out for quadrant hockey, and he goes to tryouts and immediately gets blown up. Based on what I have seen in minor hockey this far, the size differential seems to be the greatest at bantam.

I agree with Mattyc, even though that lady from the u of c has a mittful of data to say we wrong

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

In your scenario think of the first yr bantam kid trying out for quadrant hockey, and he goes to tryouts and immediately gets blown up. Based on what I have seen in minor hockey this far, the size differential seems to be the greatest at bantam.

I agree with Mattyc, even though that lady from the u of c has a mittful of data to say we wrong

I know that this is the biggest argument from the "pro hitting" crowd. Should these kids even really be trying out for AAA hockey? If they can't handle try outs they will not be able to handle a full year of it, but that is a call the parents sneed to make. It's the same kid getting smoked at bantam try outs or pee wee evaluations, experts say that 11-12 yr olds are more susceptible to injury and concussions then a 13-14 yr old. But like I said earlier, it is all moot as there will be no contact in minor hockey within 10 years.

I also want to say that down here in Lethbridge, there are 9 first year bantams on the AAA team,of course none of them played contact last year. Smart hockey players who know to keep there heads up, some of them are pretty small to, but they are doing just fine against all the older, bigger teams.

[Street Pharmacist]

What is the benefit of having hitting in a league that is extremely unlikely to develop furore NHLers?

Forget about all the data that proves that early hitting doesn't prevent injury. There will actually be some real brain injuries and other serious injuries when hitting is involved and a lot less when it isn't. Is the sacrifice of these kids' futures worth that price?

My thoughts on the notion that hitting early is beneficial is that players who are strong in their skates may learn how to avoid big his and diminish them. That's fine. Most serious injuries do not occur on legal hits, they are happen on accidental collisions and illegal hits. You can't learn how to take an elbow to the head or a hit to the back.