Are agents going too far in chasing pre-teen hockey prospects?

[sureLoss]

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...ckey-prospects

There is a boy playing minor hockey in Toronto you haven’t heard about yet but probably will before too long. Then again, he could be out of hockey in three years or become a marginal player in junior or college hockey. We have chosen to not publish his name. But he’s very, very good. He’s attending an elite hockey academy in Toronto and is thriving a year above his age bracket for one of the top Triple-A organizations in the Greater Toronto Hockey League. He’s big and he’s skilled and he has lots of promise.

He’s also just 12 years old. And his family has been getting calls from player agents. The same agents who represent multimillionaires playing in the NHL have been contacting the parents of a 12-year-old kid. And he’s not the only one. Players, particularly in Canada’s biggest city, have become accustomed to being contacted by agents during their bantam years, (ages 13 and 14) and some of them already have representatives.

“He’s the one people think is ‘The Next One,’” said Anton Thun, a longtime player agent of M-Five Sports, of the player in question. “People think he might be the next Connor McDavid or John Tavares. Numerous agencies have spoken with the family and, quite honestly, we have spoken with the family. We’ve gotten information into his hands to let him know we exist. We’re not going to let other agencies come into our backyard and take the best player.”

Said another agent who requested anonymity, “It’s brutal and it’s getting out of hand. I don’t want to do it, but if I don’t, I’m going to be out of business. Now it’s not about who wins the battle, but who gets there first.”

Whether the NHL Players’ Association, which certifies and regulates player agents, is prepared to do something about it remains to be seen. Setting age restrictions was a hot topic at the NHLPA’s meeting with agents in the summer, and the union has since sent out a missive to agents to determine whether it’s an issue that needs to be addressed. And as the self-appointed pseudo-governing body for agents, it appears the NHLPA is the only institution that can save the agents from themselves on this one.

[dobbles]

Interesting article. Since the NHLPA might not be in the best position to care or really be responsive, could bodies such as the CHL put in rules that say players under X age with an agent aren't eligible? Would they be willing to do such a thing and risk a young player calling their bluff and playing USHL or something else instead? That could work if they aren't able to get a countrywide rule in place like they talked about in Sweden.

As an American I am not versed on the specifics of the CHL so maybe something like that isn't possible or whatever, so don't crucify me if it's a dumb idea from that standpoint!

[GGG]

The US college players to get around the amateurism stuff have family advisers so even if you ban it this will still occur.

A key protection might be to say that an agent cannot charge for services for player /family below the age of 18. And that no contracts for future promises of work could be signed either. I'd worry about parents being exploited while trying to gain an edge for their kids.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by GGG

The US college players to get around the amateurism stuff have family advisers so even if you ban it this will still occur.

A key protection might be to say that an agent cannot charge for services for player /family below the age of 18. And that no contracts for future promises of work could be signed either. I'd worry about parents being exploited while trying to gain an edge for their kids.

You bring up a good point about U.S. kids. And I guess I should have thought about other sports first since they are much more prevalent. The facade they put up with football and basketball players both about the recruiting and even the payoffs while there are flimsy. So I guess at least with the current situation everything is on the up and up and not shady dealings.

[FanIn80]

I'm pretty sure chasing preteens isn't legal, regardless of the reasons for it.

[Northendzone]

personally I see nothing wrong with these guys chasing down young athletes.

You would just hope that the agents are being truthful with the players and their families about how at this early age they are a long way from making any money from hockey.

I would hope that an agents role for kids this age is to talk to them about how the CHL draft works and what to expect if they make it to a CHL team as well as impressing on them how much work they need to put in to continue to stay ahead of their peer group.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

personally I see nothing wrong with these guys chasing down young athletes.

You would just hope that the agents are being truthful with the players and their families about how at this early age they are a long way from making any money from hockey.

I would hope that an agents role for kids this age is to talk to them about how the CHL draft works and what to expect if they make it to a CHL team as well as impressing on them how much work they need to put in to continue to stay ahead of their peer group.

Isn't the problem that 12 year olds are not generally capable of taking such a reasoned approach to things as you just laid out? And while we would love to rely on parents to play that role, the reason we have so many laws to protect minors is that often they aren't acting in the best interest of the child either.

[flameester]

Originally Posted by GGG

The US college players to get around the amateurism stuff have family advisers so even if you ban it this will still occur.

A key protection might be to say that an agent cannot charge for services for player /family below the age of 18. And that no contracts for future promises of work could be signed either. I'd worry about parents being exploited while trying to gain an edge for their kids.

The agent that I am familiar with does not charge a dime until the player signs any professional contract then the payments start after that.

[Northendzone]

if the parents are not acting in the best interest of their kid, then not sure who it should be left to. certainly a 12 yr old does not have the life experience to be able to sort that stuff out and out of every 100 hockey parents there are a small number of parents like Patrick o'sullivans just like out of every 100 or so agents there are a handful of david frosts.

a friend of mind had a son who was drafted and is currently playing in the nhl, and based on what I was told, the agent did actually pay for his boy to get some additional training for skating and whatnot - so the agent did seemingly incur costs before the player signed a pro contract - once again, that was the story I was told and I had no reason to disbelieve it

[thefoss1957]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

if the parents are not acting in the best interest of their kid, then not sure who it should be left to.

It didn't work out for Jack Johnson...I really don't have a suggestion, except, perhaps dealing with amateur rules, like US colleges declaring guys ineligible if favors are accepted from potential agents.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

personally I see nothing wrong with these guys chasing down young athletes.

You would just hope that the agents are being truthful with the players and their families about how at this early age they are a long way from making any money from hockey.

I would hope that an agents role for kids this age is to talk to them about how the CHL draft works and what to expect if they make it to a CHL team as well as impressing on them how much work they need to put in to continue to stay ahead of their peer group.

That's the thing, "you would just hope..." is still just hope. There's very little guidelines over what agents can and cannot be doing. The majority of these agents are just looking for the next superstar to represent. They're objectives are not necessarily aligned with the player/family.

Putting a prepubescent teenager and their families in that kind of position is pretty ridiculous if you ask me. The guidelines they use in Sweden (can't be represented by an agent before 16) is a step in the right direction.
If i were a parent of a 12yr old who was being solicited by NHL agents, I'd be pretty weary, and this is coming from a guy with above average interest in the NHL and the business behind it. I can only imagine the stress it would put on a family with zero knowledge about the business.

[DownhillGoat]

Isn't this fairly common in soccer already?

[burn_baby_burn]

Is there anything the NHLPA can really do though? The kids in question are not NHLPA members (yet). I guess it all boils down to provincial law. Can there be a distinction between young athletes, who have potential of pro careers, and child entertainers (who can legally work) under the law?

[Resolute 14]

It's also common historically in the NHL. The Bruins, for instance, signed Bobby Orr to a deal when he was 13.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Is there anything the NHLPA can really do though? The kids in question are not NHLPA members (yet). I guess it all boils down to provincial law. Can there be a distinction between young athletes, who have potential of pro careers, and child entertainers (who can legally work) under the law?

The NHLPA wouldn't target the kids, but the agents themselves. Losing certification to represent NHLPA members would end some agents' careers.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It's also common historically in the NHL. The Bruins, for instance, signed Bobby Orr to a deal when he was 13.

No kidding, this isn't something new. Just a lot more money involved now days, which leads to more vultures..

[lazypucker]

Scouting 12 year-olds is too out of line? Top soccer clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona recruit players worldwide starting at age 5...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It's also common historically in the NHL. The Bruins, for instance, signed Bobby Orr to a deal when he was 13.

I also remember Scotty Bowman being sent to scout Orr and later told the Canadiens the kid was too small and to forget about him.

[Northendzone]

In some cases though an agent may be helpful to a player and his family, especially for families that are newer to Canada.

Or even someone like myself who has a son playing bantam, but what do I know about the inner workings of the CHL (not that I am suggesting my son is headed there), but if he was showing signs and was drafted, I'd want help understanding what rights the team has over him, and I'd also want some insight on how different teams operate.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by GGG

The US college players to get around the amateurism stuff have family advisers so even if you ban it this will still occur.

A key protection might be to say that an agent cannot charge for services for player /family below the age of 18. And that no contracts for future promises of work could be signed either. I'd worry about parents being exploited while trying to gain an edge for their kids.

I happen to co-own a family advisor business and provide hockey family advisor services (advisor being the spelling the NCAA uses so I follow suit). Being also a lawyer, in conducting business I do not have the luxury of ignoring laws that others might (ie I could very easily run into trouble with the Law Society of Alberta for acting unlawfully or unethically even if I am not acting as a lawyer at the time).

In my research to set up the company it is apparent that there are many consumer protection laws at the Province and State level that offer protections to kids and their families but that are largely unknown or in practice are just ignored. A big part of why I got into the industry was to help steer kids and parents away from scammers and otherwise prevent them from wasting time and money on questionable organizations / programs.

At the time our company obtained its license from Service Alberta I was told it was the only license ever issued for a family advisor in the province. Which is interesting given there are others operating as family advisors in the province.

So a competitor of ours who does not have a license and discusses the possibility of signing up a client at the arena after having watched a kid play could be violating the Fair Trading Act which would provide all sorts of legal remedies to the kid and his or her parents and the unlicensed advisor could even be prosecuted for certain offences under the act. But only if someone knows about the legislation and actually complains about the situation or files a lawsuit.

As for the US, many jurisdictions have agent licensing legislation and the NCAA pressed for and was largely successful in implementing a federal statute (implemented on a state by state basis) to standardize protections:

http://www.ncaa.org/enforcement/agen...gents-act-uaaa

The NHLPA could certainly impose limits on its licensed agents, but legislation that is both enacted and enforced is probably the only way to truly prevent a continued race to recruit younger and younger kids. Presently, I am not an NHLPA certified agent. So they could not prevent me or any non-licensed agent from recruiting in Novice.

For me, common sense and reason and basic decency (not to mention commercial reality) prevents me from doing that.

To be fair on the family advisor front, though, kids wanting to qualify for the NCAA do have to make school course decisions in grade 9 that could impact eligibility so it can be entirely legitimate for prospects to be identified that early for the purposes of advising them about education requirements.

Edit:

And also forgot to mention, having any agreement to be represented by an agent or getting free services from a family advisor can end a player's NCAA eligibility completely so your suggested protection on that front could be a disaster.