Iginla Destination Discussion

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Whether or not he meant to, and I personally think he didn't mean to, he screwed the team.

He agreed to a trade and then backed out out of self-interest. I think it's fine to question someone's integrity who does that. You and I might come to different conclusions whether that has any effect on his integrity, and how much. You rightly point out that he has earned a lot of respect for other things he has done. For some people, that trumps the trade thing. For others, it doesn't.

I don't think you have to be so upset with people who think differently than you. It's not "asinine". It's coming to a different conclusion based on the same evidence. Reasonable people can reasonably disagree. Try it some time.

(I don't know what "waived his middle finger at the team" means exactly, particularly (but maybe it's a double entendre in this context) as it should be "waved", but whatever.)

Sorry but when you resort to tossing out "If someone has integrity" + "they obviously over judged his character" + "Iginla basically waved his middle finger at the franchise on his way out." - in the same post - I think it deserves some ire and is proportionately labeled as being a load of crap.


The bottom line is the team was in shambles and told him they didn't want him back. He was at a point in life where he was going to have to leave the only NHL team he'd ever known and uproot his family and was given a short window to make an important decision.

No one knows the series of events, the timing, what was said and when with regard to the day he was traded. We do know the management at that time made a series of puzzling blunders so it's really difficult to suggest what exactly was agreed to and when. That's the problem here. While you have worded your take in a levelheaded manner, you're still making a lot of assumptions about things we will never have the full details on.

You can suggest Iggy put his own best interests first and be angry about it (although I think that's lacking context). But to suggest he definitively screwed anyone over, lacks integrity or gave the team the middle finger is skewed and over dramatic. It's putting a massive spin on it to suit a narrative a few people here have created without knowing the facts.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't know why we rehash this over and over. Nobody was in the room where that initial conversation occurred.

There were two ways of doing this. It starts with Iginla notifying the Flames of his list of teams he was interested in. So far, so good... that seemed to go without a hitch, and Iginla identified 4 teams.

Now this is where it gets bungled.

Iginla didn't sign-off. Was he supposed to? If he was, why didn't Feaster follow-up with that BEFORE bothering to call up the respective GMs? That's the first problem.

Now, did Iginla leave that initial step thinking: "Well, they didn't get me to sign-off, so do I pick which organization I get to go to if there is more than one that is interested?" Did Feaster leave that meeting thinking: "He will go to the team that offers the best package."?

If I am Iginla, my thought process is: "These are the 4 teams I am interested in moving to. I want to win a cup, so I want to move to the organization that will best give me a chance to win it."

He got exactly the team he wished to move on to, and he exercised his option. I don't hold anything against him for that.

I just think it makes a heck of a lot more sense for Feaster - a lawyer - to actually do some due diligence and ensure all the 'i's are dotted and all the 't's are crossed. He didn't get Iginla to sign-off. Notice that none of the interviews post trade did Ken King ever state that Iginla refused to sign the waiver for his NTC when asked. To me, that's the key in figuring out which side was 'wrong' or 'right'.

He didn't win the cup, but at the time Pittsburgh was on a roll and added some good pieces. They were the favorites. They were a powerhouse. I don't begrudge Iginla one bit. I just think it was bungled by Feaster. He wasn't as terrible a GM as many think, but he did bungle some stuff. This was one of them.

Anyways, even if you believe that Iginla saw an opportunity to get something he didn't deserve for some reason, and 'screwed the Flames' - heck, it was years ago now. Neither package was any good. They both sucked. Show me where Khokhlachev would fit on this team right now. He would have been traded for pennies on the dollar last season most likely, and Bartkowski kind of sucks anyways (and was acquired later on for free). Pick was a bit higher, but more than likely would have ended up being Klimchuk anyways.

I just don't think it matters any longer whatever way you sit. The difference is the same in net result. It was a poorly executed trade with both returns being poor. That is part of the reason why Feaster and Weisbrod were canned. To then go and trade Bouwmeester for peanuts as well was simply asinine.

Don't care if Iginla 'pulled' something. Right until the end it was his right to do so. Iginla didn't HAVE to agree to anything at all, at any time.

What I find the most perplexing thing was how poor of a return Iginla was, and how poor of a return Bouwmeester was (who looked really great in Hartley's system BTW). Those were poorly executed trades.

[getbak]

The summer after the trade, Jay Feaster explained the situation at a STH event I attended. In the way he told the story, it was unclear if Boston was one of Iginla's four approved teams or not.

He said that he spoke with Jarome during the LA road trip and said he'd like a list of teams that Jarome would approve a trade to. At that time, Iginla said he'd talk to his agent and give Feaster the list by the date they had agreed upon.

Feaster called Iginla's agent to get the list and was told four teams, but then the agent added that there was one or two other teams that Jarome could likely be talked into accepting. When telling this story, Feaster didn't specify any of the teams in question, but the added tidbit about the extra teams doesn't make sense for him to add if Boston was one of the main four.

Then, after he made the deal with Chiarelli, Feaster called Iginla's agent and told him they had a deal to Boston. This is when the agent responded, "You have a deal, but we don't". That's when Feaster talked to Iginla and Iginla asked if Pittsburgh had made an offer that Feaster considered fair. Feaster told him, yes, but he preferred Boston's offer. Iginla asked him to make the deal with the Pens. Feaster asked what Iginla would do if Feaster insisted on the Boston deal, and Jarome responded that he'd be happy to play out the rest of the season in Calgary.


Like I said, it was unclear from the way he told the story if Boston was one of Iginla's four approved teams, or if they were one of the teams the agent thought he'd be receptive to. I didn't think to ask for clarification and neither did anyone else at the session.



Anyway, it's been four years and Feaster isn't even here anymore. If anyone is still holding a grudge, they should just get over it.

The only reason the Flames shouldn't sign Iginla is if Treliving doesn't think he'll help the team win next season. If Treliving wants to offer a contract, no one else should be doing anything to block it.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by getbak

The summer after the trade, Jay Feaster explained the situation at a STH event I attended. In the way he told the story, it was unclear if Boston was one of Iginla's four approved teams or not.

He said that he spoke with Jarome during the LA road trip and said he'd like a list of teams that Jarome would approve a trade to. At that time, Iginla said he'd talk to his agent and give Feaster the list by the date they had agreed upon.

Feaster called Iginla's agent to get the list and was told four teams, but then the agent added that there was one or two other teams that Jarome could likely be talked into accepting. When telling this story, Feaster didn't specify any of the teams in question, but the added tidbit about the extra teams doesn't make sense for him to add if Boston was one of the main four.

Then, after he made the deal with Chiarelli, Feaster called Iginla's agent and told him they had a deal to Boston. This is when the agent responded, "You have a deal, but we don't". That's when Feaster talked to Iginla and Iginla asked if Pittsburgh had made an offer that Feaster considered fair. Feaster told him, yes, but he preferred Boston's offer. Iginla asked him to make the deal with the Pens. Feaster asked what Iginla would do if Feaster insisted on the Boston deal, and Jarome responded that he'd be happy to play out the rest of the season in Calgary.


Like I said, it was unclear from the way he told the story if Boston was one of Iginla's four approved teams, or if they were one of the teams the agent thought he'd be receptive to. I didn't think to ask for clarification and neither did anyone else at the session.



Anyway, it's been four years and Feaster isn't even here anymore. If anyone is still holding a grudge, they should just get over it.

The only reason the Flames shouldn't sign Iginla is if Treliving doesn't think he'll help the team win next season. If Treliving wants to offer a contract, no one else should be doing anything to block it.

This is the closest we'll ever come to knowing, and this clearly shows that Iggy didn't screw over the team.


To the haterz: Even if Iggy did "screw over the Flames" was the Bruins deal that much better? Weren't they essentially the same deal with a late first and two prospects moving?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

This is the closest we'll ever come to knowing, and this clearly shows that Iggy didn't screw over the team.


To the haterz: Even if Iggy did "screw over the Flames" was the Bruins deal that much better? Weren't they essentially the same deal with a late first and two prospects moving?

With the benefit of 20/20 yes they basically were the same.
At the time the Boston deal seemed better and was the one the Flames preferred.
I don't think Iggy screwed the Flames, he exercised a part of his contract he was entitled to. However, I also think it demonstrates that, like most players, he put himself ahead of what was right for the Flames. Which was his right.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

With the benefit of 20/20 yes they basically were the same.
At the time the Boston deal seemed better and was the one the Flames preferred.
I don't think Iggy screwed the Flames, he exercised a part of his contract he was entitled to. However, I also think it demonstrates that, like most players, he put himself ahead of what was right for the Flames. Which was his right.

It was also his right to refuse to be traded. Which he didn't do. So he agreed to a trade because the Flames organization wanted him to.

So really, he did the Flames a favor by waiving his NTC in the first place.

Classy move I'd say.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

It was also his right to refuse to be traded. Which he didn't do. So he agreed to a trade because the Flames organization wanted him to.

So really, he did the Flames a favor by waiving his NTC in the first place.

Classy move I'd say.

Oh boy really?
He agreed to a trade because he was also trying to win a cup.
This is what bugs me about this - that somehow he was doing the Flames a favor.
In my opinion both parties were out to do what was best for themselves. Any narrative that suggests that either party was somehow putting the interest of the other in front of their own is not accurate IMHO.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Oh boy really?
He agreed to a trade because he was also trying to win a cup.
This is what bugs me about this - that somehow he was doing the Flames a favor.
In my opinion both parties were out to do what was best for themselves. Any narrative that suggests that either party was somehow putting the interest of the other in front of their own is not accurate IMHO.

Would you have preferred he "Sundin" us by refusing to waive and then leaving as a free agent?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Would you have preferred he "Sundin" us by refusing to waive and then leaving as a free agent?

No...but I don't know why my point is being misunderstood.
Again - he was well within his rights to do what he wanted. If you don't want players to have that right, don't give them NTCs. I think it is hypocritical to dish those out and then expect players to waive them at your whim.
But I also think when folks start to say that he did the Flames a favor, that also isn't true.
The scenario was, in theory, a win-win. Iggy had a chance to get a cup and the Flames extracted some value.
If it wasn't a win-win it wouldnt' happen.
I think the Flames are guilty of treating Iginla with kid gloves though - thinking that it would be insulting to get official sign off when in retrospect that's what they should have done.

[FlamesAddiction]

Iginla/Meehan were always a hard bargain with the Flames. They held out twice in contract negotiations and then when it was time to move on, they had no issue backing away from a "gentleman's" agreement with Flames management. When he was traded to Pittsburgh, he couldn't get the smile off his face and the current Flames brass has stated that Iginla has zero interest in ever coming back to the Flames.

He played some great hockey for this club and that is awesome, but the level of deification some fans give him is too much. He has always been looking out for #1. And honestly, I can't say that I would behave any differently if I was in a profession like his.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Iginla/Meehan were always a hard bargain with the Flames. They held out twice in contract negotiations and then when it was time to move on, they had no issue backing away from a "gentleman's" agreement with Flames management. When he was traded to Pittsburgh, he couldn't get the smile off his face and the current Flames brass has stated that Iginla has zero interest in ever coming back to the Flames.

He played some great hockey for this club and that is awesome, but the level of deification some fans give him is too much. He has always been looking out for #1. And honestly, I can't say that I would behave any differently if I was in a profession like his.

Sorry do you have a link to the current flames brass saying that specifically ?

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

He played some great hockey for this club and that is awesome, but the level of deification some fans give him is too much.

And you are 110% in the opposite direction giving him way to much flack, putting an almost absurd, villainous spin on the situation with him leaving. It's outright bizarre.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They held out twice in contract negotiations and then when it was time to move on, they had no issue backing away from a "gentleman's" agreement with Flames management.

Again, Getback's post above underlines we don't even have close to the amount of details to make this conclusion. But not only have you leaped to said conclusion, you've suggested Iginla has no integrity and questioned his character as a result.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

When he was traded to Pittsburgh, he couldn't get the smile off his face and the current Flames brass has stated that Iginla has zero interest in ever coming back to the Flames.

A) Why wouldn't he smile at the time of the trade? He was going from one of the worst teams in the NHL (who just told him he wasn't wanted there) to one of the best. Again, bizarre.

B) There's been several posters who've suggested from sources that Iginla may have changed his tune about wanting to come back. Situations (and teams) change. People change over.


The amount of leaping you're doing to construct a story you've built in your mind is the problem here. It's just not necessary to put such a sinister and dramatic spin on the situation.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Sorry do you have a link to the current flames brass saying that specifically ?

Yeah, this thread. It was mentioned at a STH event that Burke said Iginla had no interest in coming back Calgary.

Do a search for "Burke" or "STH" and the info will come up.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah, this thread. It was mentioned at a STH event that Burke said Iginla had no interest in coming back Calgary.

Do a search for "Burke" or "STH" and the info will come up.

And then it was mentioned twice more that things may have changed (as they often do when time passes). But there's that selectiveness again with you only thinking things that line up with your preconceived notions about the situation.

Originally Posted by Yappin Tappin

So I wasn't planning on posting this because I wanted to keep my conversation private, but just to dispel the notion by some here that Iggy would never want to come back here, I will tell my story. Mods feel free to PM to get further detail and facts.

I spoke to a member of Flames management last week and jokingly asked if we were bringing back Iggy. The individual said he's spoken to Iginla and he's training super hard this summer because he feels he has 1 more year left in him. Iggy knew he wasn't going to be a priority guy this summer so he's being patient while trying to still be ready for the season in hopes he will be signed somewhere. Iginla even said to this individual something along the lines of "so you guys need RWers right?", and said he has shown interest in coming back to Calgary. Now the question is whether Flames management think there's a fit. But they will speak to Iginla's agent and consider it an option.

So in conclusion, contrary to some people's opinions, Iginla is willing to come back to Calgary to play if the Flames will have him and the fit makes sense.

[Mister Yamoto]

It really is too bad for the Flames that Iginla screwed them over. If Iginla had waived for Boston Matt Bartkowski would a Flame right now.

I'm glad that Iginla played hardball with Feaster. His policy was to hand out no trade clauses and then not honour them. Nice to see it backfire on him.

[Young_Guns]

Eklund (I know, I know): Iginla to Edmonton (e3), Oilers with "Sincere interest".

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Young_Guns

Eklund (I know, I know): Iginla to Edmonton (e3), Oilers with "Sincere interest".

B.S. Trying to stir the pot with the Flames faithful. I really can't see Iginla ruining his legacy with this franchise by signing with the Grease.

[Young_Guns]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

B.S. Trying to stir the pot with the Flames faithful. I really can't see Iginla ruining his legacy with this franchise by signing with the Grease.

True, but what if the Oilers are the only team who make a contract offer?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Young_Guns

True, but what if the Oilers are the only team who make a contract offer?

That won't happen. They might offer the most money in bonus's or contract but there will be multiple teams with interest in him. Even if there wasn't are the Oilers legit SC contenders this year? No. So are you going to throw everything away and turn on a fanbase that still fills half the Dome with your jersey or wait and see if someone comes calling and if they don't you go play for Olympic gold.

[Machiavelli]

Don't do it, Iggy