XBone Vs PS4 Vs PC - VIDEOGAME POLITICS THUNDERDOME - PS4:900p-XBone:720p-PC::smug:

[Chill Cosby]

It's not really "XB1 vs PS4 vs PC" but it is video game politics:

"Gamers" are over.

[OutOfTheCube]

This just in, woman sleeps with men to advance her career? You don't say?

[TorqueDog]

On a related note to this whole females in games thing, first, let me start off by saying that no one deserves the sort of horse#### that Sarkeesian (death threats?!) has been put through. I'm saying this specifically because some people have a hard time understanding that a person can make two disparate statements that are linked by a common subject without one lending context or meaning to the other. I haven't followed the Quinn thing nor do I care to right now.

Now, here's the problem I have with Sarkeesian: she's a liar. It's been plainly demonstrated that she twists and misrepresents what she talks about to further her point. If something is worthwhile, it should be no challenge to raise issues that don't need to be fabricated. She used Hitman as an example and instead of playing the game properly (not harming civilians), she went and recorded killing and dragging around the dancers in the night club level - exactly NOT what the game intends for you to do if you play it correctly.

The conversation about equality in video games is a worthwhile one IMO, and people like her make it incredibly difficult to advance the discussion. If we're going to make any progress, we have to be honest about what the issues are, and how we can make them better, instead of making stuff up, saying the ends justify the means. You can't pull that in the information age, you'll get outed as a fraud and once that happens, you've only served to confound the discussion.

[rubecube]

Holy hell, the comments below all of those articles should be enough for gamers to feel embarrassed on behalf of their community, let alone the content of the articles themselves. If you're someone who consistently uses terms like "white knight," and "SJW," congratulations, you're probably a bigot/misogynist.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Holy hell, the comments below all of those articles should be enough for gamers to feel embarrassed on behalf of their community, let alone the content of the articles themselves. If you're someone who consistently uses terms like "white knight," and "SJW," congratulations, you're probably a bigot/misogynist.

I don't even know what 'SJW' means. When did I get old?

[Thor]

Single Jew Whore?

[White Out 403]

social justice warrior? per google? or maybe single jew whore lol... who's to say?

[zedge]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Holy hell, the comments below all of those articles should be enough for gamers to feel embarrassed on behalf of their community, let alone the content of the articles themselves. If you're someone who consistently uses terms like "white knight," and "SJW," congratulations, you're probably a bigot/misogynist.

Its really disgusting.

[photon]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Now, here's the problem I have with Sarkeesian: she's a liar.

That's what some that are trying to undermine what she's saying (rather than honestly trying to discuss it) are saying, but I don't see that at all.

It only looks that way if one misrepresents her point entirely. That whole section of her video isn't about the game requiring a player to create misogynist violence. Heck the name of the video is "Women as background decoration." Which makes the whole criticism a straw man argument.

The video is about women as background decoration, in that they don't influence the narrative they just exist to be useful or an obstacle to the player. And the trope is that when they are used as background decoration, and this is her actual argument, women are more often portrayed in a small range of social roles, body types, occupations, situations etc, designed to objectify. The video isn't about one game, or that one game forces people into violence against women.

Just like criticism of how Photoshop is used to create unrealistic and ultimately harmful portrayals of women isn't a criticism of one specific ad or photo shoot or whatever.

So saying that you don't HAVE to kill the stripper and drag her dead body out for the cops to get distracted by isn't a valid criticism because it doesn't criticise the actual point.

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

It's been plainly demonstrated that she twists and misrepresents what she talks about to further her point.

I disagree, every time I've seen examples of this supposed misrepresentation it's been because the person is missing the point, often painfully obviously intentionally. Or they don't understand what cultural criticism is in general, they only see criticism of what they like, feel threatened, and lash out, not understanding that one can enjoy games while at the same time looking at a problematic aspect.

[bubbsy]

hmm i'm completely out of the loop.. what's the beef exactly??

[OutOfTheCube]

Women are mad that a completely male dominated industry is male dominated. And other women are mad that games that are clearly made to cater towards men are clearly made to cater towards men.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by photon

It only looks that way if one misrepresents her point entirely.

Case in point:

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Women are mad that a completely male dominated industry is male dominated. And other women are mad that games that are clearly made to cater towards men are clearly made to cater towards men.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Women are mad that a completely male dominated industry is male dominated. And other women are mad that games that are clearly made to cater towards men are clearly made to cater towards men.

It's only male dominated because of the systematic oppression of women as both members of the industry and consumers. I haven't seen any women who are simply upset because there are games catered towards men, but rather as has been identified in this thread, games that objectify and occasionally de-humanise women. Many games treat women as simple objects, background or otherwise, that exist not in the word of the character but simply as an obstacle which must be overcome or a tool that must be utilised in order to progress.

There are games that buck the trend, like the Last of Us, which features 3 strong female characters (with only one male character) that not only play significant roles, but starring roles. Are there women in the game that serve only a purpose that helps/hinders Joe? Absolutely, but there is balance. It's a good step.

Much like gaming being "male dominated," to me that is much like the term "Gamer." It's old and hardly relevant. It's used by an ever-shrinking sect of the community that seeks to hold on to something that simply isn't anymore. "Gamer" at this point is simply "Heavy consumer." Just someone who buys into the industry heavier than others, but certainly not some label that carries any real weight or respectability. In this same way, the industry is "male dominated" simply because a small section of the population refuses to acknowledge women in the light which they deserve.

It's following a slower, but similar arc to the "nerd" world. It's not just males, nor is it just "nerds" who are into things like the Avengers, or Doctor Who. It's growing to be a global and inclusive community.

[zedge]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Women are mad that a completely male dominated industry is male dominated. And other women are mad that games that are clearly made to cater towards men are clearly made to cater towards men.

Wow.. really??

SMH

Case in point.

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

This just in, woman sleeps with men to advance her career? You don't say?

I missed this little gem... Yea the men involved are completely blameless. Let me take a wild guess but you probably blame Jennifer Lawrence for taking nudes and having them leaked too right?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by zedge

Wow.. really??

SMH

Case in point.

The whole "movement" reads like a group of 10 year-old boys who don't want girls in their treehouse.

[OutOfTheCube]

I'm not part of any 'movement', I just don't care a whole lot. It seems like a lot of whining about nothing. It's like saying women get objectified in Fast & Furious movies. Well yeah, duh, they're made 90% by guys targeting their 90% male audience. Most of this isn't exactly high art and the stuff that's talked about as art generally does a much better job of being inclusive towards women.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

I'm not part of any 'movement', I just don't care a whole lot. It seems like a lot of whining about nothing. It's like saying women get objectified in Fast & Furious movies. Well yeah, duh, they're made 90% by guys targeting their 90% male audience. Most of this isn't exactly high art and the stuff that's talked about as art generally does a much better job of being inclusive towards women.

If the audience is 90% male (and I think that number is pretty inaccurate), perhaps it's because it's an industry that's always attempted to market itself in ways that exclude and are detrimental to women.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by zedge

I missed this little gem... Yea the men involved are completely blameless.

Oh they are very much to blame. I doubt I'll ever read another Kotaku or Gawker article again after their writer's involvement in this and their awful defense of "Oh well, he wrote this before they entered into that sexual relationship! We swear there is no impropriety there!" which then turned out to possibly be wrong. The review writer and developers definitely took advantage of their station when entering into the situation with Zoe Quinn. But to try and describe Quinn as a victim in this situation is as ridiculous to say that she is the only one who did anything wrong.

Comparing her situation to Jennifer Lawrence having nudes leaked is also unfair to someone like Jennifer Lawrence. Jennifer took pictures for private use and had them outed by a non-associated 3rd party, which could possibly damage her career. Zoe Quinn actively slept with people to further her career and was a completely different person behind the scenes than the one she was portraying to the public and was outed by the ex-boyfriend who she ####ed around. By her own definition (not the law) she raped him.

The response and some of the legit things said to Zoe Quinn have been gross, but she is not blameless and certainly isn't a victim in the same sense as Jennifer Lawrence. Christ, with Quinn you have to question the legitimacy some of the attacks on her since she has apparently fabricated attacks on herself in the past (Wizardchan).

Originally Posted by rubecube

If the audience is 90% male (and I think that number is pretty inaccurate), perhaps it's because it's an industry that's always attempted to market itself in ways that exclude and are detrimental to women.

Video game demographic targeting has been awful at keeping in touch with the demographics it should be targeting. There are more 20something women playing video games than 15 - 19 year old boys. Now true, most of these are mobile games but that should be a sign to main stream console developers that there is a huge market there that they just need to advertise and appeal to better.

[dino7c]

The Kim Kardashian mobile game makes 700k per day or something...chicks have their phones out 24/7

(this could also go in the "#### this world" thread, famous for getting pissed on)

[chemgear]

Xbone with Kinect, Forza and LE of Watch Dogs cheap ($499)!

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/produ...&cmp=sm_tw_gmr