[GDT] Predators vs Flames - 7:30 - SNet1

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Why not just have 14 balls in the barrel representing the 14 teams who missed. You draw 1 to 14, and that is the order of the first 14 picks. Voila. If your team still sucks, find a new GM. Don't rely on the draft lottery.

You can't lose sight of the fact that at its core the draft order is there to ensure that bad teams have a hand-up in improving their fortunes. Doing so helps to keep lesser teams financially viable, and provides a churning effect in the league in terms of success.

People like to point to the Oilers, but a single draft can change the fortunes of a perennially sucking team. Chicago is not winning Stanley Cups without Kane and Toews. The Kings would not have won without Doughty. The Pens are probably not even in Pittsburgh without Crosby.

Even with it's faults, I think it's important that on some level the league provides this step-up for crappy teams. There's a huge difference between picking top 3 and 14.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The bigger issue for the Flames and the reason they likely have very little chance of making the playoffs is because of parity as the Flames would have to leapfrog four other teams just to be tied with Nashville. It's one thing to gain ground on one or two teams but there's too many teams right now between the Flames and a playoff spot. They would need to go on another 8 game winning streak and after that still play at a high level as winning 8 in a row and then playing .500 or worse after won't get it done. It's getting close to time to evaluate players that can be moved at the trade deadline.

Agreed.

At the onset of this trip which had 4 winnable games the Flames needed to 3-2-0 for 8 straight 5 game segments in order to get in according to a few sites forecasts. That in itself is a tall order as that's .600 hockey the rest of the way and the Flames made the playoffs last year at .591

But they go 1-3-1 on this trip meaning now they have 7 segments left and have to go 3-2-0 for 4 of these segments (as before) and 3-1-1 for the other three.

Same math as you ... win 8 in a row and then .500 the rest of the way would also get it done.

It's not likely enough to miss out on the good decisions that can be made now to help build this very young team to where it needs to go.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Yeah, let's give the Kings Jack Eichel last year. Just what the other 29 teams need.

Yea, this is the problem with the "every team that misses gets equal odds" idea. Can you imagine if the Kings walked away from the 2015 draft with McDavid?

The lottery now is almost perfect, the only thing they need to do now is come up with a rule to prevent another Edmonton scenario (a team hoarding top picks for almost a decade straight). Something to limit the number of high picks a team can have within a certain amount of time.

[Table 5]

Yeah, I think it's just a case of limiting teams to something like "one 1st overall pick every 5 years, one 2nd/3rd overall pick every 3 years". You rarely get the guys who are "tankworthy" after the top 1-3 anyway...so if someone wants to tank for #4, go nuts.

[dammage79]

I'm kind of over hoping the Oilers don't get the #1 pick now. Let's be honest, all the top 5 picks in the world haven't been able to get that organization back on track. So they get Matthews, it's just going to be the same old re-tread narrative from the team and fans:
"Oh this player will finally put us over the edge! We'll be contenders for multiple Stanley Cups in no time now!"

#yawn. We've all heard this same old song and dance for the last decade +.

It's clear that drafting #1 or top 5 multiple times over and over and over and over again doesn't win you titles, you actually have to know how to build a team. Something no Oilers GM has done since '06. Even then they still lost.

Let the Oilers plunder all the #1's, it's not helping them, and every other team seems to do just fine building with all the #2's and 3's and 4's etc etc.

[taxbuster]

Back to the GDT....Flames 3-2. Possibly in OT.

JG with two, Wideman with the other (go figure...)

[codynw]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'm kind of over hoping the Oilers don't get the #1 pick now. Let's be honest, all the top 5 picks in the world haven't been able to get that organization back on track. So they get Matthews, it's just going to be the same old re-tread narrative from the team and fans:
"Oh this player will finally put us over the dge! We'll be contenders for multiple Stanley Cups in no time now!"

#yawn. We've all heard this same old song and dance for the last decade +.

It's clear that drafting #1 or top 5 multiple time over and over and over and over again doesn't win you titles, you actually have to know how to build a team. Something no Oilers GM has done since '06. Even then they still lost.

Let the Oilers plunder all the #1's, it's isn't helping them, and every other team seems to do just fine building with all the #2's and 3's and 4's etc etc.

I'm not worried about the Oilers becoming good. I just hate seeing good talent wasting away in that dumpster fire.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Table 5

You can't lose sight of the fact that at its core the draft order is there to ensure that bad teams have a hand-up in improving their fortunes. Doing so helps to keep lesser teams financially viable, and provides a churning effect in the league in terms of success.

People like to point to the Oilers, but a single draft can change the fortunes of a perennially sucking team. Chicago is not winning Stanley Cups without Kane and Toews. The Kings would not have won without Doughty. The Pens are probably not even in Pittsburgh without Crosby.

Even with it's faults, I think it's important that on some level the league provides this step-up for crappy teams. There's a huge difference between picking top 3 and 14.

I'm sorry, but that's horse####.

The salary cap (read salary floor) and the new CBA have made all the clubs competitive.

While true Crosby, Kane and Toews are franchise men, if the Pens and Hawks didn't win those drafts, someone else would have.

A good GM can find stud players mid and late in the 1st round, so I'm sorry but your argument holds no water. All it does is encourage tanking at worst, or at best, it messes with motivations of coaches, players and GMs post Jan 1.

A team should be trying to win every single game of the schedule 100%. Realistic exceptions can be made for clubs who have comfortably secured a playoff position. Then again, it's not in their best interest to lose momentum before the playoffs.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

A good GM can find stud players mid and late in the 1st round.

Alright, then who cares about where a team drafts?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Alright, then who cares about where a team drafts?

*raises hand*

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Alright, then who cares about where a team drafts?

What do you mean by that? Obviously you hope you can draft first overall if you miss the playoffs, but the NHL needs to get rid of any hint of incentive to not play every game with 100% genuine effort to win.

When fellow flames fans say they don't mind the losses because it gives us an extra lottery ball or two, I think something is really broken in the system.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

A good GM can find stud players mid and late in the 1st round, so I'm sorry but your argument holds no water.

You will always need good drafting in later rounds, but go take a look and see how many teams in the last decade (ie the salary cap era) have won a Stanley Cup without a Top 3 pick. I doubt you'll find more than one or two.

I'm not happy about tanking either, but drafting at the top is as important as ever to building a winner. A good GM will always be needed to finish off a team, but it's sure as hell easier to build a winner with a Patrick Kane or Crosby on your team, than to do it the Detroit way.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

What do you mean by that? Obviously you hope you can draft first overall if you miss the playoffs, but the NHL needs to get rid of any hint of incentive to not play every game with 100% genuine effort to win.

When fellow flames fans say they don't mind the losses because it gives us an extra lottery ball or two, I think something is really broken in the system.

Players play to win, coaches coach to win. General managers, historically, don't stick around long after they draft first overall.

99% of bad teams are bad because they are bad, not because they want to lose. The draft is designed so these bad teams don't stay bad. It's its function and it has shown to work with teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, Tampa and Los Angeles. Detroit has shown a team with competent management can still compete, and Edmonton and Columbus have shown it doesn't matter where you draft if you lack competency. Fans hoping that Calgary loses doesn't change anything. If Giordano or Hartley want to lose, it's time you remove them from the organization, but they don't so there's no issue.

[heep223]

Sucks that GDTs have deteriorated to this.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Yeah, I think it's just a case of limiting teams to something like "one 1st overall pick every 5 years, one 2nd/3rd overall pick every 3 years". You rarely get the guys who are "tankworthy" after the top 1-3 anyway...so if someone wants to tank for #4, go nuts.

I was thinking they can just reduce the odds of winning the lottery for the following year by a percentage.

For example:
1st - 75%
2nd - 50%
3rd - 25%

If the team that won the draft lottery finishes last again their odds of winning in the following year would be 5%(20*0.25) instead of 20%.

Anyways, lottery aside I am hoping for a Flames win tonight! Lets make it an interesting end to the season.

[Trailer Fire]

Hoping for a high paced, exciting game. I want to see some progression from Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, and Hamilton.

[blender]

Originally Posted by heep223

Sucks that GDTs have deteriorated to this.

Win 3 in a row and see...

[Always Earned Never Given]

I'm just hoping for an «around the league report» after this game!!!!!!!

[1qqaaz]

I really hope Hudler gets a lot of time on the top line tonight. I'm sick of seeing guys like Colborne, Jooris, Ferland, and Jones play there while sucking all of the offense away.

From the Flames website: "

The veteran winger has points in his last two games and looked a lot stronger in recent games than he did when he first returned from his groin injury. In his last five games, Hudler has four points and seven shots on net.

Hudler led the Flames in scoring against the Predators last season, scoring two goals and five points in three games. He also has more points against Nashville (12 goals, 31 points) than any other team in the NHL."

He's earned it. He is talented enough to actually be there. We need to increase his value. We need to get his mojo going. Sometimes the I think the memory of the coaching staff is a little too heavily dependent on what's happened very recently.

[CroFlames]

I'm hoping we win every game the rest of the season...