Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > Fire on Ice: The Calgary Flames Forum

View Poll Results: Pick the best prospect from the following
Acolatse 1 0.38%
Agostino 113 43.13%
Billins 1 0.38%
Carroll 0 0%
Culkin 5 1.91%
Cundari 4 1.53%
Deblouw 0 0%
Elson 0 0%
Gilmour 0 0%
Hanowski 2 0.76%
Harrison 0 0%
Hickey 3 1.15%
Jooris 1 0.38%
Kanzig 26 9.92%
McDonald 40 15.27%
Ollas Mattson 1 0.38%
Rafikov 2 0.76%
Ramage 1 0.38%
Roy 1 0.38%
Smith 43 16.41%
Thiessen 0 0%
Van Brabant 1 0.38%
Wolf 17 6.49%
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-29-2014, 02:11 PM   #41
Five-hole
Franchise Player
 
Five-hole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The C-spot
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic View Post
Maybe not everyone agrees with the away the Flames evaluate their own talent? By the same token, I think it is clear how things played out and based on what the team said afterwards that they selected McDonald where they did because they knew it was their only chance to get him. I speculating, but I imagine that regardless of how they had the players ranked, they probably had information to suggest that Smith would likely be there for them to select at the end of the round, and McDonald would not.

There is a strategy to drafting; especially past the first round.
Certainly, but implicit in that gamble is that it meant more to them to secure McDonald and risk not getting Smith than the other way around.
Five-hole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 02:22 PM   #42
Textcritic
Acerbic Cyberbully
 
Textcritic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-hole View Post
Certainly, but implicit in that gamble is that it meant more to them to secure McDonald and risk not getting Smith than the other way around.
It's implied, but without knowing what the Flames knew, it is hardly a very significant implication. Again, based on what happened at the draft, and based on what the team said in the aftermath, it seems as though risk was mitigated.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
"The Lying Pen of Scribes" Ancient Manuscript Forgeries Project
Textcritic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 02:44 PM   #43
Calgary4LIfe
Franchise Player
 
Calgary4LIfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Exp:
Default

Went with Smith, but perhaps should have went with McDonald, Kanzig or even Wolf here.

Smith has the ability to be a dominating presence what can also score. He was utilized against the opposing teams top lines, and still managed to put the puck in the net. Good head on him, great character, and decent skills and skating ability. Will be very interesting to see how he does as one of the key guys on that team now.

McDonald - I really don't know much about him other than he has been 'impressive'. Caught youtube clips, read lots about this kid - he definitely has top-end starter potential at this point, but goalies are always so hard. Still, should we hold it against him that goalies are tough to gauge? If he hits his ceiling, he is a potential starter and should have been taken much sooner.

Kanzig - some people don't like him as they still see basically a 'goon' with no offensive ability. This kid shuts-down the top lines. He is not big.. he is gargantuan. One inch shorter than Smith, but has over 30lbs on him. Kid can skate - not quick, but I bet his speed will not be much of an issue. Nobody will touch the goalie - he probably has the ability right now to push anyone out of the crease in the NHL. He is also a leader, has the defensive IQ (a defencemen should always be able to defend). The only lacking element to his game is offence. I don't think it is going to start magically appearing, but if this kid can be the defensive anchor to an offensive defencemen, he will be a huge (pun intended) cog for the Flames. Lowry throws him against the top lines on every team, and he does well. One thing that should not be underestimated is how dedicated this kid is. 245lbs of PURE MUSCLE. He also dedicated himself to being a better player (not a goon) - had a 'horrid' 1st season on the Royales, and the next two he became a mainstay on the top-pairing.

Wolf - He is a mystery to me. We all saw him kind of 'goon' some guys (and apparently, there was more to the story on that). However, he is a good skater, good fighter, has lots of jam to his game. He might actually be a decent 3rd liner. I don't care if he is 24 or 18 - he is still a prospect. I also would expect him to develop more if he is given a chance in the NHL - I do think it takes at least a season or two for guys who have never played in North America - or even just in the NHL for that matter - to find their 'legs' and get used to the tempo and style. Whatever he is this season, I would expect 'x' amount of improvement. I doubt he will be anything more than a good 3rd liner - and that in itself might be reaching a bit - but will be nice to see him in game action.

Agostino - I just kind of see 'vanilla' in him. He is quick, and very good at forechecking, but he is not big enough (though he does seem to throw his weight around decently) for the bottom lines, and just doesn't seem to have that skill for the top lines. I really do look at him as somewhat of a tweener, but maybe a guy the Flames rely to be a PK'er and forechecker. I just think there are too many guys with more to offer coming through the pipeline - guys who are either bigger than him, or have more skill, etc. There is nothing wrong with him - there is just not that much 'right' either that makes him stand out in the prospect pool to me. With that being said, watch him come out and earn a spot and pot in 20 goals. Shows you how much I know.

What is funny to me is that Culkin is not getting much love. He was essentially considered 'the same' as Kulak, and Conroy was raving about him last year saying they were really considering having him turn pro. I think he is kind of dropping a bit too far, but it is very difficult to figure out who should be ranked where any longer.
Calgary4LIfe is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Calgary4LIfe For This Useful Post:
Old 07-29-2014, 02:53 PM   #44
codynw
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Exp:
Default

I can't wait to see how Smith does this year, but honestly, I don't have very high expectations for him. I'll be surprised if he's much more than a 4th liner in the NHL. I'd love to be proven wrong, and I will definitely be watching his development because there is potential there to be something this Flames team desperately needs (big, tough player that can finish).
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroFlames View Post
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
codynw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 03:16 PM   #45
The Fonz
Our Jessica Fletcher
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-hole View Post
Seems odd to pick Smith before McDonald when the Flames themselves didn't do so and no games have been played since, but maybe that's me.
I'd agree with you if someone was picking, for example, Ollas Matsson over Hickey. Both are Dmen, but Hickey was a 3rd rd pick while Mattson was a 6th in the same draft, 1 month ago. That wouldn't make much sense.

But choosing Smith over McDonald, is that odd? One was an early 2nd, the other was a late 2nd, and they play totally different positions. I think it just comes down to a lot of people being uneasy over goaltending prospects.
The Fonz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 03:17 PM   #46
sevenarms
Powerplay Quarterback
 
sevenarms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe View Post
What is funny to me is that Culkin is not getting much love. He was essentially considered 'the same' as Kulak, and Conroy was raving about him last year saying they were really considering having him turn pro. I think he is kind of dropping a bit too far, but it is very difficult to figure out who should be ranked where any longer.
Kulak separated himself from Culkin with really solid play with the Heat at the end of last season.
__________________
"Somebody may beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it."
-Steve Prefontaine
sevenarms is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 03:20 PM   #47
jg13
Franchise Player
 
jg13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Smith is a very interesting prospect, very average regular season but was a PPG in the playoffs with the Generals and fought a few times as well.

If he can build on that this year I can see him jumping into our top 10 prospects next year for sure.
jg13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 03:27 PM   #48
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic View Post
Maybe not everyone agrees with the away the Flames evaluate their own talent? By the same token, I think it is clear how things played out and based on what the team said afterwards that they selected McDonald where they did because they knew it was their only chance to get him. I speculating, but I imagine that regardless of how they had the players ranked, they probably had information to suggest that Smith would likely be there for them to select at the end of the round, and McDonald would not.

There is a strategy to drafting; especially past the first round.
Exactly.

And I would add to that, not only did their selection ensure they got the goalie they wanted, but it also had the possible effect of ensuring that Smith was still there for their next pick.

Once one goalie is picked, there tends to be a run on them as teams don't want to miss out. By selecting McDonald, not only did the Flames secure the goalie they wanted, but they also caused 3 or 4 other picks to be goalies in the 2nd round as well. Considering that they were picking 34th and 54th, that may have helped ensure that Smith fell to them as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-hole View Post
Certainly, but implicit in that gamble is that it meant more to them to secure McDonald and risk not getting Smith than the other way around.
Not necessarily. The draft isn't just about taking the guy you like. Once you're past the first round, it is also about guessing what the other teams will do so that you can possibly get both guys that you like.

There is definitely the opportunity (and risk) for some strategy. To me, this looks like such a case.
Enoch Root is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 03:37 PM   #49
SebC
tromboner
 
SebC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: where the lattes are
Exp:
Default

I went Culkin. I'm at the point where I don't think we're likely not getting an impact player out of the forwards (though Agostino is easily the top remaining forward) and I just can't bring myself to vote for Mason McDonald and his awful save percentages.
SebC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 04:16 PM   #50
Five-hole
Franchise Player
 
Five-hole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: The C-spot
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
Exactly.

And I would add to that, not only did their selection ensure they got the goalie they wanted, but it also had the possible effect of ensuring that Smith was still there for their next pick.

Once one goalie is picked, there tends to be a run on them as teams don't want to miss out. By selecting McDonald, not only did the Flames secure the goalie they wanted, but they also caused 3 or 4 other picks to be goalies in the 2nd round as well. Considering that they were picking 34th and 54th, that may have helped ensure that Smith fell to them as well.

Not necessarily. The draft isn't just about taking the guy you like. Once you're past the first round, it is also about guessing what the other teams will do so that you can possibly get both guys that you like.

There is definitely the opportunity (and risk) for some strategy. To me, this looks like such a case.
That's an awful lot of assumptions based on pretty limited information which fit your narrative.
Five-hole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 04:17 PM   #51
To Be Quite Honest
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Exp:
Default

So hard now... I don't think there is much difference in the prospects now.
To Be Quite Honest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 06:37 PM   #52
Vulcan
Franchise Player
 
Vulcan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
Exp:
Default

It was pretty common knowledge that the Flames would take a goalie in this draft. After watching MacDonald in the Under 18, he's the goalie I wanted but I didn't expect the Flames to use a high pick on a goalie. Pleasant surprise when they picked MacDonald and it's time he's picked on our list.
Vulcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 06:53 PM   #53
A Shot Wide
Backup Goalie
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Exp:
Default

Honestly, McDonald potentially not cracking the top 20 seems like a crime. Big second round goalie who was nothing but impressive this year should definitely be higher, but I guess that's evidence of our prospect pool.
A Shot Wide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 07:14 PM   #54
To Be Quite Honest
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Exp:
Default

Oh yeah, new McDonald is a good pick, E I E I O. (Bill Burr impersonation)
To Be Quite Honest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 01:11 AM   #55
Textcritic
Acerbic Cyberbully
 
Textcritic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Five-hole View Post
That's an awful lot of assumptions based on pretty limited information which fit your narrative.
Not really. A lot of what Enoch says was covered in the post-draft sit down that Treliving and Tod Button had with Rob Kerr on day 2 at the draft.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
"The Lying Pen of Scribes" Ancient Manuscript Forgeries Project
Textcritic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 05:05 AM   #56
pgsieve
Crash and Bang Winger
 
pgsieve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The George
Exp:
Default

Acolatse!
__________________
The legs feed the wolf.
pgsieve is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to pgsieve For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:43 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021