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Old 03-20-2017, 11:35 AM   #61
Cecil Terwilliger
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One of my favorite pastimes is showing up to arenas around the city on the weekend, picking a team at random and then cheering like a completely belligerent out of control parent while egging on those around me. The crazy part is that I barely have to start acting up and the other parents join in right away. It's as if they were just waiting for an excuse to act like lunatics.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:37 AM   #62
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This certainly isn't winsports, and from some of the comments about parents spending all that time and money makes me think that they don't realize that this isn't about the adults, its about the kids.

I've noticed some things coaching youth players that makes me want to basically at times burn my coaching card.

A) Some parents have lost all perspective on things and made the sport about them instead of the kids.

B) Adult behavior that is not ok in the real world is certainly not ok in the fake world of sports

C) In most things, parents or fathers should not be allowed to coach the same team that his son or daughter plays for.

D) Most coaches are volunteers, we don't get paid anything. We do it for the love of the sport and various other reasons. But that doesn't give any parent the right to yell at a coach, or abuse a coach, or talk negatively about a coach to their child behind his back. Do you want to know the primary source of kids not respecting coaches. Its the parents with their BS "Conversations with their kids. If you want to find out why your kid isn't the starting QB maybe talk to the coach and ask him instead of blasting him to his face, telling your kid that the coach is screwing you, and complaining to every other parent in the association or whatever that the coach has it out for your son or daughter. Most coaches don't.

Oh and here's a big one

E) Kids are an emotional sponge. So when coaches start complaining about the refs, or players on the other team, the kids soak that up and then relaunch it at times 10. If they hear their parents screaming at the refs in the crowd, or screaming at other teams, its the same effect x 50.

F) Parents also need to quit counter coaching their kids. You know son, let me show you some things that I learned playing hockey of football, lets go out in the backyard and the old man will show you how to play the game. I'm sorry dad, do you have safe contact training? How well do you know the game, or the game plan the coaches are running, or the techniques that they're teaching. I've had so many kids show up after a weekend a way from practice and their technique is gone to pot because daddy-o has decided to teach him a heads in block or tackle technique. "Leave a smoking hole son, just like I did when I was the best linebacker in Olivair country".

I'm not saying that parents shouldn't be involved in their kids athletic development. But the whole parental culture in sports has really changed, and not for the better. Its not about the betterment of their kids, its about the parents. I spent thousands of dollars, my son isn't being coached right, the refs are out to screw me errr my kids.
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Its funny because the one thing I've noticed is that a lot of coaches are walking away from the game because of interactions with parents.

Absolutely there are some bad coaches out there, and coaches with rage control issues, and coaches who have really lost touch and are stuck in the past and refuse to evolve.

But every year that I've come back I've seen less and less long term coaches that I know. And even when I go to courses or certification classes, the conversation is around the wear of coaching and the loss of fun.
This is all very true. I'm a first time coach this year who helped with some coaching duties last year and it is my kid's third year in minor hockey. I won't be returning to a head coach role next season because of the negative interaction with one of our assistant coaches. He has ruined the experience for myself, our other coaches, our manager, some parents and maybe the players. All the team volunteers are pretty new to the experience and probably made some mistakes in handling the various situations that came up but at the same time they shouldn't have come up. This guy actually got upset because his kid couldn't be awarded player of the game twice in a tournament and instead the award went to another player.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:39 AM   #63
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But wouldn't you get these experiences without so many of the negatives in other sports? Basketball, baseball, etc...
My son also played lacrosse and rugby, I can't speak to B-Ball or baseball.


I have seen parental stupidity in both sports. Sadly, because of the popularity of hockey it seems to generate higher profile (maybe more) stupidity. I have had parents of atom players tell me with a straight face their child will play in the NHL.


I have a theory that I have posted around here before.

In short: the higher a level of sport (any sport) played by a parent(s) the better/more realistic the view of youth sport by the parent. The lower level or lack of playing sport the crazier parents approach sport. I have seen this play out over and over again.

If I had a dollar for every parent that justifies their actions by saying "I am just competitive" I would be rich. I have now taken to tell those parents, that if they are so competitive they should play a sport to let those competitive juices flow.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:41 AM   #64
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Coin toss sucks but in the end you need to break the tie somehow. I've seen both ends of the argument, having kids in minor hockey and also being the beer league guy who is playing afterwards.

What I have seen from Hockey Calgary (at the community level) is they will generally bank some extra time after several games as a buffer to any that run long (ie after 3 games there may be 30 minutes before the next scheduled ice time instead of the normal 15 minutes. This usually works out although I do remember showing up to my son's game several years ago to find out they were running several hours behind schedule due to a bunch of games that had all gone to OT. But they didn't short anyone and we all got to play our allotted games. Mind you I am sure the arena would have had to agree as well.

I have also been the beer league guy who had a game delayed (mind you only by 15-20 minutes) due to minor hockey playoff games running long. Again, the arena was very accomodating and also agreed to give us our full permit length so we were not shorted. So we had nothing to lose and it all worked out. A super fast flood before our game (saved 5 minutes), a quick warm up (saved 1-2 minutes) and a quicker break between periods (saved another couple of minutes) meant we didn't finish much later than we would have anyway. But again, this all happened because the arena agreed to it.

Winsport has a bit of a reputation now of catering to non minor hockey (they charge more $$) but it's their business so it's hard to argue and they are within their rights to do what they did.

I do wonder how the AA game was run, that part has not been stated. In my daughter's league all 2 hour permit games are supposed to only have a single flood after the second period. They almost always end way ahead of permit time when it is done this way. We have played a few out of town games that will flood between both periods and you can just squeeze in a full 3x20 stop game if you keep it moving. But it would leave zero time for OT or a shootout. I wonder if they flooded each period and then ran out of time.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:42 AM   #65
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I've been offered a head coaching role a couple of times, and its just a step that I refuse to take. In football when your a head coach you don't coach. You make some decisions in tough situations but for the most part its up to the coordinators to make the decisions unless its something like a go/no go decision on third down. Head Coaches are mostly administrators who have to deal with the parents.

In football the fun is at the position coaching level because you can actually become very tight with the kids your coaching and you can really work on player development. You can't really do that at the coordinator or head coaching level.

But the money is at the coordinator level because you get the glory or the crap, but its your game plan and your design and the other coaches and players have to play in a world that you designed.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:54 AM   #66
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Coin toss sucks but in the end you need to break the tie somehow. I've seen both ends of the argument, having kids in minor hockey and also being the beer league guy who is playing afterwards.
Found this gem on reddit. Totally speculative: https://www.reddit.com/r/Calgary/com..._toss/df69m61/

"A buddy's team was playing after this game. Men's beer league. They tried to tell the rink attendants that they had no issue delaying their game so that the shootout could keep going, but were told it was an issue with the league rules, not the time slot. His game had to be delayed by ~10 minutes anyway because the goalie was late, so the shoot out definitely could have continued."
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:05 PM   #67
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I'm not saying that parents shouldn't be involved in their kids athletic development. But the whole parental culture in sports has really changed, and not for the better. Its not about the betterment of their kids, its about the parents. I spent thousands of dollars, my son isn't being coached right, the refs are out to screw me errr my kids.
Which is why this is my daughter's last year in gymnastics/cheer. The sports activities of 9 year old kids should not be lifestyle statements by parents.

Too many parents today don't have any hobbies or outlets for their status-seeking, so they make their kids' activities their hobby.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:06 PM   #68
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I'm sure I'd feel different if it was me playing or my kid, but I just can't find the energy to care about this. It's a freaking bantam AA game. Maybe one kid out there MIGHT get a sniff of professional hockey. MIGHT. It sucks but at the end of the day it's just a kids hockey game. Who cares?
This is kind of where I'm at. I'm surprised it made the news. I've had kids in competitive sports, all through their growing up years. There's a lot of crap that's happened, some that even as a parent, I didn't understand but the idea of taking it to a media source (paper, tv, whatever) would never have even occurred to me. Hockey was one sport my oldest wanted to play but very early on, we chose not to pursue it. When he wanted to start, he was young. We lived in the far north of the province, so any game away was a minimum 2 hour trip and tournaments were often 3 or 4 times that many hours away. So that was a part of the decision process. But, the biggest part of the decision to stay away was attending a couple of games with friends' kids were playing in. Remember, these are really young kids. Most of them could barely stand, so there was no Gretzky business going on, with any of them, even the ones who could skate a little. It was basically two herds of cats bunching up and slipping and sliding down the ice for their game time, and someone just happening to slide a puck in the net, really through fluke, because there was no skill, lol. It was the parents that turned us off and made us back away. The yelling, the screaming, the coaching from the stands, the things they were calling the other kids on the other team - um HELLO? These are little kids. They're just about fun at that point. But there was no fun, not that we could see. Every kid came off the ice looking like someone kicked their puppy and took away their candy. The parents are talking like each and every kid was just seconds away from an NHL deal, and approached the whole process that way. Hell no, didn't want any part of that. If you weren't the parent going into it with that same attitude, holy hell on a popsicle, it got ugly. We didn't want any part of it, for him, or even for us.

The kids played and participated in other sports, quite happily and we were fortunate, their coaches were always amazing. One royal ######head parent on the soccer travel team one year but the kids actually shamed him off the sidelines and then I believe the league dealt with him and he never returned to the sidelines ever again. But yeah, this is part of life. If it's in the rules, then it's in the rules. If you don't like those rules, then challenge the league about it, outside of the game time and get it figured out that way. A royal hissy fit isn't going to change things. There's a process to be followed and we don't all have to like it, but it's how it shakes out. I'm dealing with a process I don't like right now, and I could throw a royal hissy fit and get nowhere or be consistent and ask the questions via the proper channels, and maybe get somewhere. In the end, I may end up with the same outcome, but at least I know I worked all the steps and angles available, outside of a screaming poopfit which no one wins, when it all shakes out.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:22 PM   #69
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I was thinking about that and at some point, we're going to see a vast shrinking of competitive sports.

The other night I was talking with other coaches over a beer and we talked to the end of youth football leagues and high school football.

Frankly since Will Smith's movie came out competitive sports have been losing the public relations battle. The battle cry is about mass concussions in sport, and the focus on bad coaches or even bad programs.

In our program in the last two years, between two teams we've had maybe 4 or 5 concussions, but two of those came from outside of the sports activities. But it doesn't matter because parents tend to believe a blockbuster movie and don't believe in asking questions on their own. so recruiting is going to get more and more difficult, and frankly its going to go from football to hockey to other sports.

At the same time, its the outside of coaching influence and glory stories of dad's life on the football field where he lowered the boom on some rival, or how he put his helmet between his numbers and left a smoking hole.


Within the next decades, I think we'll see an end to high school football in Canada unless things change, just because parents see the movie concussion and read articles int he paper and don't ask the question of what's actually being done in sports to protect my kid. Instead they say "I'm putting my kid in soccer because its safe (Soccer is a concussion factory) or baseball because there's no hitting.

I think in hockey we'll see pushed responsibility where the hitting element and responsibility for teaching it is pushed further and further along, until someday a kid will step into junior level hockey with little or no training in safe contact and then we're doing a real disservice.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:44 PM   #70
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my son is connected with a few of the boy's on the Buff's team that won - most of them posted pictures on social media wit the #tails (or something to that effect).

for the record, someone was posting about eh cost - Bantam AA would run between $4,000 to $6,000 depending on the level of fundraising done and how many tournements etc, and clothing.

I have been involved with coaching my son since he started playing hockey, and I can't think of one really crazy fan related incident - but maybe because I have been coaching, I have been able to tune it out or been far enough away to not hear it.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:50 PM   #71
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They should have played paper rock scissors for the win. Would have been funnier to see. Or at least have a representative from each team arm wrestle for the win.
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:53 PM   #72
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Instead they say "I'm putting my kid in soccer because its safe (Soccer is a concussion factory) or baseball because there's no hitting.
OMG, I have had that argument. "Oh we'll do soccer, no head issues." Um, what?! I was told I was a horrible parent for not removing my son from football after a concussion from a stinger (along with the rest of the ouches that came with that). People. It was the flukiest thing, and he didn't get the concussion the way you'd think a kid is going to get a concussion in football, at least not the way I had figured on, previously. One mom was going to remove her son from the team and the game that my son was injured in, after seeing his hit and that they removed him from the field by ambulance. I wasn't removing my kid, and he was the one hurt, FFS. It was a fluke. Nothing more. He sat out the specified time by the doctors and then went in to play a bit less frequently than before, because that's what his trainers and coaches decided on, and then eventually, right back to the regular game play as he'd done before.

I never could convince some moms that we saw far more concussions on kids, when ours played soccer, than I saw in the 3 years my kid played football in high school. Nope, football was the evil awful.

I miss having kids in sports sometimes. Football especially. It's one of my favorite sports to watch and we were very lucky, he had wonderful coaches and trainers which definitely had a huge part in the enjoyment factor. Really upstanding guys.

ETA: I have never quite understood that concussion argument either. You can get a concussion from all sorts of things. I'm skilled enough, I got one from riding a rollercoaster LOL. I'm tall enough on the "you must be this tall to ride" scale, but those doomahickey things they bring down over your head, I still tend to bounce around if I'm not super careful because I am very short, and the one time I wasn't paying close enough attention, bonked my head on the rollercoaster car and concussion. Everything is a risk. We just calculate how much of the risk we're willing to take/accept and go from there.

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Old 03-20-2017, 01:02 PM   #73
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lol those parents wouldn't last a minute at a martial arts tournament.

Kids were getting kicked in the head hard enough that they dropped on the regular. I think the head shot rules have changed since I was in it for kids though.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:17 PM   #74
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lol those parents wouldn't last a minute at a martial arts tournament.

Kids were getting kicked in the head hard enough that they dropped on the regular. I think the head shot rules have changed since I was in it for kids though.
Umm... maybe you should move up a division and spar with the adults then?!
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:18 PM   #75
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OMG, I have had that argument. "Oh we'll do soccer, no head issues." Um, what?! I was told I was a horrible parent for not removing my son from football after a concussion from a stinger (along with the rest of the ouches that came with that). People. It was the flukiest thing, and he didn't get the concussion the way you'd think a kid is going to get a concussion in football, at least not the way I had figured on, previously. One mom was going to remove her son from the team and the game that my son was injured in, after seeing his hit and that they removed him from the field by ambulance. I wasn't removing my kid, and he was the one hurt, FFS. It was a fluke. Nothing more. He sat out the specified time by the doctors and then went in to play a bit less frequently than before, because that's what his trainers and coaches decided on, and then eventually, right back to the regular game play as he'd done before.

I never could convince some moms that we saw far more concussions on kids, when ours played soccer, than I saw in the 3 years my kid played football in high school. Nope, football was the evil awful.

I miss having kids in sports sometimes. Football especially. It's one of my favorite sports to watch and we were very lucky, he had wonderful coaches and trainers which definitely had a huge part in the enjoyment factor. Really upstanding guys.
that movie Concussion has done more damage to amateur sports then I think that the directors and Will Smith imagined it would.

Frankly youth football is really safe if its coached properly and the players play it properly. Are there injuries? Absolutely, but all sports have that. Is there a risk of concussions? Absolutely. But there's the deal.

Concussions are extremely preventable in collision sports, and I believe in football more then any sport.

Hows that you say? Football is hyper dangerous.

First and foremost teach safe contact. We're not teaching kids not to be fierce tacklers at all. You can be safe and still make big hits that both players walk away from. Teaching kids to keep their heads out of tackles is the toughest thing to teach, and frankly its got to be taught at every practice. As well beyond teaching it, you can't step on the field as a coach without being certified in it starting this year.

Most practices have gone away from a lot of hitting. We do teach them safe contact. But the days of the pit, king of the mountain and even hitting during a scrimmage are done. Now the kids only hit pretty much on game day.

Concussion protocol, making sure that kids who do get hurt go through the protocol from injury to back to play. I've become really cautious about players now, in that if they're taking off of the field with a suspected head injury, they're done for the day.

I've seen a sharp decrease in terms of concussions in football over the last 8 years that I've coached from my precious stint over a decade ago. I though still see the same kind of what I call non-preventable injury where a kid tears up a knee or breaks a limb. But you see those in every sport and there's nothing that you can do about it.

So why are we losing the public relations battle? Because frankly the pro game still has a concussion problem. Watch a game, technically most of the players there are bad tacklers. They lead with their heads, they're technique poor in a lot of ways, but because they're so well developed it looks amazing. Frankly once you get through highschool ball, that's probably the end of seeing any safe contact, so the current generation of college players and pro players are using far more dangerous tackling forms so we might see another 5 or 6 years of concussion problems in football.

On top of it, because college and pro football is money ball, we're seeing stars getting rushed back before they're 100% sure that they should be playing.

But we're going to see less and less kids coming out to play football, because we're losing that public relations battle and hockey and soccer and even basketball are winning it even though from an injury or concussion sense they're just as dangerous.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:23 PM   #76
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Umm... maybe you should move up a division and spar with the adults then?!
How else do you test the classic theory of fighting three 15 year olds vs. fifteen 3 year olds?
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:16 PM   #77
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They should have played paper rock scissors for the win. Would have been funnier to see. Or at least have a representative from each team arm wrestle for the win.
Not quite the same, but we had a coach one year who did that with the kids on the ice to see who had to serve a major penalty for one of our boys who got five and a game. For whatever reason I thought it was pretty funny and it was hard to hold back the laughter, but at the same time it was a great way to do it as well. Pee Wee 8 so it's not like he was ending someone's career by doing it and it is pretty hard to argue that what he did was completely without bias so no accusations from the parents either.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:37 PM   #78
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Umm... maybe you should move up a division and spar with the adults then?!
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How else do you test the classic theory of fighting three 15 year olds vs. fifteen 3 year olds?
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:02 PM   #79
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lol those parents wouldn't last a minute at a martial arts tournament.

Kids were getting kicked in the head hard enough that they dropped on the regular. I think the head shot rules have changed since I was in it for kids though.
My son was at a karate tournament last year and I saw a 5-year-old get struck hard in the face. The kid stood there bawling for about 2 or 3 minutes. Nobody intervened, they just paused the match and let him stand there and cry it out until he had control of himself. Then he finished the match and his dad gave him a hug.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:12 PM   #80
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My son was at a karate tournament last year and I saw a 5-year-old get struck hard in the face. The kid stood there bawling for about 2 or 3 minutes. Nobody intervened, they just paused the match and let him stand there and cry it out until he had control of himself. Then he finished the match and his dad gave him a hug.
Seems like dad is making him soft. Should have shown him what a hit from a real man was like.
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