Starting roster 2014 better than 2013?

[Bingo]

The ironic thing about last season is how little the roster itself mattered. All kinds of injuries to almost every key veteran player, but still a rowdy second half that moved them up the standings.

To me the big thing this year is sustaining that culture and work ethic. Not easy to do two years in a row ... do they collapse and fall into a huge losing streak and last place? Or take some greater prospect pushes, better goaltending and that crazy work ethic to actually move out of or to the top 20 in the league?

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The ironic thing about last season is how little the roster itself mattered. All kinds of injuries to almost every key veteran player, but still a rowdy second half that moved them up the standings.

To me the big thing this year is sustaining that culture and work ethic. Not easy to do two years in a row ... do they collapse and fall into a huge losing streak and last place? Or take some greater prospect pushes, better goaltending and that crazy work ethic to actually move out of or to the top 20 in the league?

Came in to post something similar to this.

Last year was semi-euphoric in the sense that we hadn't seen a team with that work ethic in a long time. Being able (and willing) to be as enthusiastic this year and beyond is not going to be a given, especially now that other teams in our division know the style Hartley wants.

In time, hard work and attitude won't be enough--it'll be important that our skilled youth develops well and that management brings in meaningful supporting casts to flesh out the progression.

(i.e. not do what the Oilers did.)

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

I think we're marginally better than last year but we'll finish lower in the standings due to greater improvement by other Pacific Division teams.

What other teams?

Anaheim is arguably better, but I can't see their improvement affecting the Flames at all. I expect SJ and LA to play at around the same level, which again will not affect the Flames at all. Phoenix could very well be worse, so if anything increases the Flames chances to possibly improve.

This would leave Vancouver and Edmonton. I will grant that Edmonton made a marginal improvement, but they were so, SO bad last year that it likely ends up being negligible with regards to their placement in the WC. Did the Canucks improve? They traded away their best forward, and are easily worse up front. The Sedins are another year older, and they have started to show their age for two or three years now. Is Miller an improvement in goal? If he is at all, it is not very significant. Even still, since they finished ahead of the Flames, I again do not see how this would contribute to a lower finish for Calgary.

Sorry. I can see a possible scenario in which the Flames may finish worse than last season, but it will not be because of improvements from within their own division.

[Funkhouser]

Vancouver isn't better on paper but don't discount their change in management, sometimes a change in mentality is all you need

But I still hate them

[Monahan23]

better goalies
better defence-men
worse forwards

[ricardodw]

Kind of interesting that most of the comments on whether the Flames are better or worse break about even.... with a slight slant towards better.

Yet the overall poll shows them dropping 2 spots in the standings to finish 2nd last.

The team last year finished 4th last 10 pts up on the 3rd worst team. They had to be 10 pts worse to be 3rd last and 11 to be 2nd last.

If they were 7 points better they would have been 9th last.


Put me in the camp that thinks this team will be better than last years team.

Hiller by himself replacing Berra would have gotten the Flames 7 pts and a 21st place finish.

Last year Glencross and Wideman were out for significant time. Wideman broke his hand and then played another 12 games .... poorly Up to that point Hartley considered him the Clear #1 D-man.... the 12 games in Oct. Wideman had 28:15 / game and the 12 games in November 24:15. Up until he broke his hand on Nov 27 he was averaging 26:14

The loss of Cammalleri and replacing him with Raymond may look like a down grade. It is if you look at the last 21 games of the season where Cammalleri was finally playing like a 6M forward ( 13 goals 24 pts + 11) .... fighting for his next contract ... up to that point he was playing to a level where no other team would risk a late 1st high 2nd round pick for him.... even with his great playoff credentials.

Up to the trade deadline Cammalleri played 42 games with 13 goals and 21 pts and was -24.

At the same point in the season (the trade dead-line) Raymond had 62 games 16 goals and 35 pts and was -3.

not that much of a downgrade on Cammalleri at all.

Bollig is replacing Galiardi ... and is an upgrade.

I thought that Gaudreau was going to replacing Stempniak in the top 6 but the Flames went and signed Stetoguchi a similar top-6 filler to Stempniak... except Setoguchi hits about twice as much as Stempniak (can play on the 3rd/4th line) making him a slight upgrade.

It all depends on who gets hurt.... Last year the Flames lost Gio, Wideman, Cammalleri and Glencross for significant time. Not many teams are going to have a good year missing 4 of their 10 best players.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Turd Ferguson

Vancouver isn't better on paper but don't discount their change in management, sometimes a change in mentality is all you need

I can agree with the sentiment, but fundamentally reject its application to the Canucks. The only way the team makes a dramatic improvement is if they substantially increase their production from the top two lines, and I can't see that happening under any conditions. When the Canucks were a great offensive team, it was on the backs of the Sedins as 100-point players as well as a healthy and productive Ryan Kesler to centre the second line. The Sedins are a long shot this season to produce at a point/game pace, and Kesler has been replaced by a second/third line tweener. No change of management and coaching can overcome the rather precipitous drop in offensive strength that this team has endured in the past two or three years.

I can see a modest improvement for the Canucks, but nothing that will make much of a difference on their finish, and also nothing that will have much of any impact on the Flames' fortunes.

[Hatter]

We would probably have had 5 more wins last year if Ramo played all of Berra's starts.

That being said, I think we'll be about the same as last year. Tough in to score goals.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Mike F

However, this year's group has a chance to be notably better, if: Monahan and Colborne grow the way two young players with a successful year under their belts can; Gaudreau (or one of the other young kids in that slot) prove to be truly NHL ready; Backlund shows that the 2nd half of last year wasn't a mirage; the Bollig - Bouma - Wolf line can handle a true 3rd line energy & checking role, rather than 4th line spot duty as the Raymond - Stajan - Setoguchi line is way too small IMO to play that role.

That's a whole lot of "ifs".

Then you have the if Giordano can repeat a career year, and if Hiller can rebound from his slide.

With so many if's you have to be really lucky to have most of them go the right way.

I would say the Flames roster looks about the same as last season, and the same results at season's end wouldn't surprise me.

[djsFlames]

I see us as slightly better all around, as an improving Monahan, emerging Gaudreau and potential 20 contributor in Raymond will replace any lost offense.

However I don't see us being as fortunate as last season, and we were very fortunate esp early in the season when opponents didn't take us seriously coming in. I do think we'll beat Vancouver and Edmonton in both season series though. I think Miller will flop in a tough division, and Edmonton is no good.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

That's a whole lot of "ifs".

Then you have the if Giordano can repeat a career year, and if Hiller can rebound from his slide.

With so many if's you have to be really lucky to have most of them go the right way.

I would say the Flames roster looks about the same as last season, and the same results at season's end wouldn't surprise me.

To add to the bolded; we had a lot of "ifs" go right last season...and still drafted 4th overall.

[trackercowe]

I believe it's a bit presumptuous to say the Flames are a better team than the Canucks. Sure they dealt Kesler, but I think they could be a better team next year, really it's hard for them to be much worse. Torts is gone, which in itself should be an improvement to the lockerroom. Added to that, Kesler is gone who was becoming a distraction as well.

Going from Luongo to Miller is kind of a step sideways, but Luongo didn't even want to be there the last few seasons. So I think Miller should be somewhat of an upgrade in net.

The Sedin's had an off year last season, but also battled injury issues. Sure they are a year older, but they should be able to still put up a respectable 70ish points each. Adding Vrabata was a decent move, and they kind of shored up their bottom six with a few other moves.

So I don't see the Flames passing them quite yet. Now in a few years that'll likely change. The Canucks prospect base is minimal, and their top players (Sedin's, Burrows, Miller, Bieksa, Hamhuis) continue to age, and they have one core player below 30 years in age (28 year old Alex Edler). So in one of two years the Canucks are going to be in a serious amount of trouble and will probably be at where the Flames are right now.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I think the Canucks team has more things needing to click in order to improve. There are many key players on that team that need to rebound in a big way. The Flames trended upward as last year progressed and the Canucks trended downward in an Oileresque way.

Why would the Canucks have an advantage over the Flames going into next season with an even worse team on paper?

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

That's a whole lot of "ifs".

Then you have the if Giordano can repeat a career year, and if Hiller can rebound from his slide.

With so many if's you have to be really lucky to have most of them go the right way.

I would say the Flames roster looks about the same as last season, and the same results at season's end wouldn't surprise me.

Yes, it (i.e. my list) is a lot of "ifs". 4 to be exact. If a lot go right, the Flames forwards will be better than last year. If not, not. It may not be highly likely that they all go right, but given that 3 of the 4 involve improvement or maintenance of play by talented young players, I don't think it's fair to say the Flames would have to be "really lucky" to have them go right. It's not like they're relying on veterans repeating uncharacteristically successful career years.

The one part of your post I really disagree with is that the Flames need Hiller to rebound from his slide. They also have Ramo, who looked good at the end of last season, who can carry the bulk of the play if Hiller disappoints.

Originally Posted by Goodlad

To add to the bolded; we had a lot of "ifs" go right last season...and still drafted 4th overall.

Did they? Injuries to Giordano, Wideman, Cammelleri (who was disappointing much of the season), Glenncross, Stajan, and Russell; step back from Stempniak, who was 2nd in scoring the year before; Ramo was good at the end of the year, but neither of their goalie projects really grabbed the reigns for the whole season; Sven failed to make an impression. . . .

In terms of things going right, Monahan lived up to expectations, Gio was excellent when healthy, Backlund had a good 2nd half, Brodie showed progress, and some of the call-ups showed promise in limited action. That's not exactly having the stars align.

[edslunch]

The Flames will play a 'heavier' game this year and as a result will get more penalties. I expect to see the skate of shame from the penalty box to the bench after a PP goal more often this year.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Forwards
Cammy >> Raymond
Stempniak > Setoguchi
Westgarth <<Bollig

Defense
Butler > Engelland

Goaltending
Hiller >>> Berra

Probably around the same amount of points, definitely somewhere around 70-80 points.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by edslunch

The Flames will play a 'heavier' game this year and as a result will get more penalties. I expect to see the skate of shame from the penalty box to the bench after a PP goal more often this year.

A small price to pay for insuring our goalies and young players aren't run. I'm thinking that it will make us more competitive with the California teams.

[Brad Marsh]

Maybe I'm just a homer, but I actually think the roster is slightly improved.

It looks to me like there is consensus about improved goaltending, arguably the most important position. There also seems to be a lot of agreement that the defence is also improved - and I feel the same way.

I also don't think there is that much of a drop among forwards. I would still take Cammellari over Raymond - but both finished the season with 45 points. I don't think it's as big of a drop-off as some are suggesting (IMO).

With the number of players on show-me contracts, trying to establish themselves, and/or looking to take another step, I have little doubt the same work ethic will be there. Combine that with what I would consider to be clear upgrades in goal and on defence, I kind of like our starting roster this year over the one we had last year.

[Machiavelli]

Equally bad.

[badger89]

Originally Posted by edslunch

The Flames will play a 'heavier' game this year and as a result will get more penalties. I expect to see the skate of shame from the penalty box to the bench after a PP goal more often this year.

Agreed. It'll help protect the younger, smaller players and the odd brawl fest will be entering, but it'll cost us points. But that's fine for one more season. Should be another entertaining rebuild year!