Dealing with parents dealing with Dementia

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Buff

Since being hospitalized he has deteriorated significantly. He's in a normal hospital bed now, can't feed himself or walk anymore. He's stuck there until he no longer needs acute care and then he goes to dementia bed in hospital for several weeks until a placement is available. The Hospitalist Drs who have seen him both agree that he can never go home again. So it's a matter of time but I'm not sure he has that much time anymore.

You have provided me more information than the person assigned to my dad. She told me that Good Sams has only one bed in Lethbridge for dementia care... There is also a lot more facilities that seem to offer dementia care than what she told me about too. There is a lot I haven't gotten into because I just don't have the energy to rehash it all. It's been a struggle.

I understand the stuggle, I had 5 years of straight hell due to my mom's dementia and my family fragmented, then moved straight into the year of hell I'm currently in.

Make sure you have all of your Dad's legal work done(Power of attorney) etc. It makes it easier for you to get things done. Like I emphasized its not enough for your Dr to say he can't go home, There are forms he can fill out and tasks that can be done with the help of that doctor and administration in the hospital coordinating with AHS.

I was talking to my Sister today about Mom, and we were fortunate that we found enough money to get my mom into a private facility, My mom who was in really bad shape, sat on the public list waiting for a room for about a year before she died in that private facility. It wasn't that the transition nurse didn't care, she did and she worked quite hard and communicated with us constantly. Its just that there aren't enough public treatment facilities with either assisted living or memory care.

Also on another note, when we had our mom in the hospital I dreaded the visits, not because of the attempted level of care or the doctors or nurses. But because it was basically like walking into a ware house of people that were in bad mental states and deteriorating.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Buff

You have provided me more information than the person assigned to my dad. She told me that Good Sams has only one bed in Lethbridge for dementia care... There is also a lot more facilities that seem to offer dementia care than what she told me about too. There is a lot I haven't gotten into because I just don't have the energy to rehash it all. It's been a struggle.

Call the Alzheimer’s Society. The people we’ve talked to there are really knowledgeable and supportive.

[Buff]

After a 46 day stay in the hospital my dad was transferred to a Long Term Care facility last week. He hasn't adapted well, or maybe he was on a decline that was going to happen anyway. He's now on comfort care for however long he has left.

The hardest thing I ever had to do was tell my kids that Grandpa's time is very near.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Without getting into all the details, my dad is going down the route of palliative care, leaving my elderly mother.

From an legal and administrative point of view, what needs / should be done?
- Wills / POA are in place for them (~done 6 yrs ago)
- Property is held jointly by then, so I believe joint survivorship applies to banks accounts and real estate. Car registration is being revised.
- I know a final T1 tax return will need to be done at some point.

Is there anything else that would make the future easier? I anticipate updating their wills once he passes.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Without getting into all the details, my dad is going down the route of palliative care, leaving my elderly mother.

From an legal and administrative point of view, what needs / should be done?
- Wills / POA are in place for them (~done 6 yrs ago)
- Property is held jointly by then, so I believe joint survivorship applies to banks accounts and real estate. Car registration is being revised.
- I know a final T1 tax return will need to be done at some point.

Is there anything else that would make the future easier? I anticipate updating their wills once he passes.

Sorry to hear that, man.

Get all his login and password information. Trying to close accounts and get into devices without it can be a real time waster when you're just trying to get stuff done later on.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sorry to hear that, man.

Get all his login and password information. Trying to close accounts and get into devices without it can be a real time waster when you're just trying to get stuff done later on.

I am sorry to hear that, but this advice is INCREDIBLY important and I'd suggest you do it now before his memory starts fading and he might start to forget.

Because trying to do it later without all the relevant information will be a gigantic pain in the ass.

And then log into his computer and make sure there isnt stuff there that he forgot to give you passwords for like banks, online investment houses, hell even news websites, because you can't cancel stuff if you can't login.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Without getting into all the details, my dad is going down the route of palliative care, leaving my elderly mother.

From an legal and administrative point of view, what needs / should be done?
- Wills / POA are in place for them (~done 6 yrs ago)
- Property is held jointly by then, so I believe joint survivorship applies to banks accounts and real estate. Car registration is being revised.
- I know a final T1 tax return will need to be done at some point.

Is there anything else that would make the future easier? I anticipate updating their wills once he passes.

Sorry for what you are going through. Some of the things that come to mind that may help you are:

1. Prepare a list of your dad's important information like his DOB, SIN no., Alberta Health Card no., Credit Card nos., Passport no., marriage date, name of parents,

2. Try to get enough information from him so you can help write an obituary that he would want

3. Make a list of his monthly bills, and where they are paid e.g. deducted from bank account, credit card, cash

4. Find out where he wants all his personal items to go (part of will?)

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Sorry to hear that, man.

Get all his login and password information. Trying to close accounts and get into devices without it can be a real time waster when you're just trying to get stuff done later on.

And do not cancel their cell phone in case that's how their two factor authentication goes through.

I dealt with someone who lost all theirs and their parents tax info when the father passed away (He used to file for all of them). It's on a laptop, encrypted and no one knows the password. They had his cell phone which allowed them access to his number and email so they could reset and get into certain accounts (yeah, yeah. Ignore the TOU legality of it for a second). But man was she stressed when I was the third contact to advise how to do the T1 Final with no access to previous years tax information. She was just as sad at what invaluable information (pictures etc.) that might be on that laptop that might be lost forever.

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Sorry for what you are going through. Some of the things that come to mind that may help you are:

1. Prepare a list of your dad's important information like his DOB, SIN no., Alberta Health Card no., Credit Card nos., Passport no., marriage date, name of parents,

2. Try to get enough information from him so you can help write an obituary that he would want

3. Make a list of his monthly bills, and where they are paid e.g. deducted from bank account, credit card, cash

4. Find out where he wants all his personal items to go (part of will?)

Make sure that you don't just confirm a will is in place, but it has been updated recently (within the last 3-5 years). I'm dealing with situations where the will was done nearly 3 decades ago. All the trustees are dead, the kids of the trustees are dead and the next level have their affairs being dealt within a POA scenario.

Also, look for the purchase agreements of any properties and make copies of that for the costs required on deemed disposition transactions or documentation of when the asset was willed to the individual for the ACB. Worst case, scenario, upon death you can try and obtain a copy of the land titles for around $30-50(?) to see if the registered value upon sale/transfer is on it, but that information is not always there.

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Without getting into all the details, my dad is going down the route of palliative care, leaving my elderly mother.

From an legal and administrative point of view, what needs / should be done?
- Wills / POA are in place for them (~done 6 yrs ago)
- Property is held jointly by then, so I believe joint survivorship applies to banks accounts and real estate. Car registration is being revised.
- I know a final T1 tax return will need to be done at some point.

Is there anything else that would make the future easier? I anticipate updating their wills once he passes.

Sorry to hear. One thing I'd advise that often gets overlooked, just keep visiting and bringing up happy memories in the conversations about them. Have every conversation possible, get in some extra visits if you can, so if something happens, there are no regrets.

"I was busy and planned to see him in a few weeks and they passed away a few days before I was supposed to go" is one that really bothers some people. You don't have to visit all the time. Just make sure that after every visit, there is nothing lacking that would cause regret if that was the last visit with them. One person I know keeps taking their mom to see the dad. "She's angry at him, but I make her go. It's better she's angry without regret, than stay home and have regret for not visiting him."

Administratively, also make sure to figure out what needs to be done so that the tax affairs can be completed on the T1 Final so that you don't need to also file T3 GRE returns. Many people don't realize that final returns/estate returns are much more complicated than yearly returns due to special rules for death. Less costs by filing a T1 final only vs filing both T1 final and T3s plus being able to wrap up the tax affairs by filing for a clearance certificate immediately after the T1Final is complete and closing that chapter (cannot do that if there will be T3) is also important to some.

Another thing to consider is simplifying the administration of things if possible. Online banking, ensuring that people recognize and will chat with you, asking for guidance from others for tips and tricks on managing basically two households AND a third scenario, how to stay mentally and emotionally healthy, when to throw money at the situation to resolve it etc.

"How about we choose to let the government collect a few hundred to a few thousand dollars extra in taxes so that you can close this chapter and grieve vs spending a difficult emotional time digging through boxes to look for tax information?"

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Some great advice from many people here - thank you to all. Lots to think about as we run out the clock here. My family aren't the Huxtables so lots of imperfect situations and people to navigate. (including yours truly)

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Administratively, also make sure to figure out what needs to be done so that the tax affairs can be completed on the T1 Final so that you don't need to also file T3 GRE returns.

I'm curious what you mean about by this. The T3GRE seems to be about the estate reporting income after death, so are you saying to sell all income bearing securities / property? (and hold everything in non interest bearing cash accounts?)

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Some great advice from many people here - thank you to all. Lots to think about as we run out the clock here. My family aren't the Huxtables so lots of imperfect situations and people to navigate.



I'm curious what you mean about by this. The T3GRE seems to be about the estate reporting income after death, so are you saying to sell all income bearing securities / property? (and hold everything in non interest bearing cash accounts?)

A lot of people think trust returns are required after death. They aren't. If you can avoid filing a trust return, I'd recommend it. Only file trust returns if you have a very complicated estate that needs extra time to clean up.

I'm definitely not saying to keep everything in non interest bearing cash accounts. More like less long term GIC after death (or not getting rid of annoying things that could trigger a rights or things filing earlier). Get third party appraisal reports on properties as at the date of death for deemed disposition if they will be transferred to someone etc.

But I actually meant more admin like, like being aware that special rules for the final return on the CRA website significantly more complex than doing a normal personal tax filing. You don't have to know the rules. Just know enough that you make sure to give yourself several months extra time acquiring the relevant tax information without unnecessary panic and confusion to yourself and the prepper. Especially since you might have to do a lot of hunting for stuff you didn't organize yourself.

Spoiler!

CRA website:
What's new normal returns 2023 = 5 pages:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...whats-new.html

What to know final returns 2023 = 131 pages:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-age...d-persons.html

Things like talking to someone who knows about final returns right away a few months after the date of death and you've had a chance to do the other administrative tasks, grieve etc. That way you can prep and accumulate important information over many months vs doing it in a tight time line. Prep copies of the previous years tax return, contact CRA to notify them that you're the legal representative, gain access to the MyCRA portal information (as a rep), dig through boxes, argue with people with the wills etc. to get access to accounts, summarize and know what types of accounts they have, dig through boxes etc. Figure out what information that should be compiled, stuff to look for what to avoid and not do etc. so that you can slowly accumulate the required information over time. Other things like getting a third party appraisal on assets that will not rollover (ie: Spouse etc.) and will transfer to a non-arms length party/beneficiary etc. so you're not panic hiring someone to get an appraisal to finish off that return by the deadline to file the return accurately. Heck, if there's a bit of extra time in the calendar year, there might even be a chance to strategize for tax purposes.

The aim is to have the tax affairs deem to dispose and transfer ALL of the assets for tax purposes from the individual and transfer/distribute it "for tax purposes" to the surviving spouse/beneficiaries T1 Final. In the next tax year, the assets/income from those assets should be taxed in the hands of the spouse/beneficiary instead of a trust. Keep in mind, "for tax purposes" is a little bit different than what some may think for legal and probate purposes.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Some great advice there DoubleF, thanks. The "What to Know" final returns document is particularly useful. As you say, the sheer volume of that is quite the eye opener.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

A lot of people think trust returns are required after death. They aren't. If you can avoid filing a trust return, I'd recommend it. Only file trust returns if you have a very complicated estate that needs extra time to clean up.

I snipped it a bit, but this is exactly true. You generally want to avoid Trust returns if you can and clean everything up on a Final T1.

Of course, that depends on the complexity of the Estate, assets have to be disposed of as well as how goddamned long the Banks and Lawyers take to do their damned jobs, as well as...'when did they die?'

Sometimes you just cant get it all done on a final T1. But if you can? Do it.