It's probably partially true, though not in a way that flatters Trump or his voters. Just like Nixon's election was largely a negative reaction to the civil rights and peace movements, Trump's popularity (as pathetic as it is relative to virtually any other President) stems mostly from disgruntled uneducated whites reacting to the decades long erosion of their advantageous position within American society.
I expect it'll continue to happen on an even larger scale in the long term as the United States declines as a superpower. I get the impression that Americans think they're entitled to a certain standard of living and superiority over others simply because of where they're born. But they don't seem to realize that maintaining that takes work and they need to be better than other countries at doing what they do if they want to continue like that.
This isn't accurate. Lots of whites have done better than ever - who makes up the majority of Silicon Valley tech elites?
This isn't just whites tightening their belts or having to share a drinking fountain, it is the worst heroin/suicide/divorce epidemic in American history.
No, it is the absolute collapse of white working class communities in certain regions of the United States, and a response against the constant moralizing and mockery of the urban elite who callously pursue policies that cause further disruption and decay in these communities.
How can people not see this? Also, why are people so quick to call racist when it was these same white working-class deplorables who flocked to Obama in droves in 2008 and 2012? Why? Because he said that he had their back. Now Trump does the same, and you wonder why they elected him.
What did Hillary Clinton have to say to the coal miners in West Virginia?
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It's probably partially true, though not in a way that flatters Trump or his voters. Just like Nixon's election was largely a negative reaction to the civil rights and peace movements, Trump's popularity (as pathetic as it is relative to virtually any other President) stems mostly from disgruntled uneducated whites reacting to the decades long erosion of their advantageous position within American society.
I expect it'll continue to happen on an even larger scale in the long term as the United States declines as a superpower. I get the impression that Americans think they're entitled to a certain standard of living and superiority over others simply because of where they're born. But they don't seem to realize that maintaining that takes work and they need to be better than other countries at doing what they do if they want to continue like that.
Better than who? No country is doing the work. I see all countries kind of going down the drain in this same direction. Take a country like Japan. They want to keep their insular racists ways not even contemplating immigration to fill in the multiple gaps in society that they have. BRIC countries. Want to be the world's power, don't want to take on the world's problems.
__________________
Watching the Oilers defend is like watching fire engines frantically rushing to the wrong fire
It's not even close to a piece of apologetics. Nowhere does he do anything to excuse Bannon, or anything that the alt-right says or does.
Total apologetics. From the word go.
“About Bannon’s personal attitudes, this is hyperbole. Julia Jones, Bannon’s screenwriting partner in Hollywood for nearly two decades, told the Daily Beast in August, “I never knew the ‘racist Steve’ that’s being reported now. I never heard him make any racist jokes, and his best friend was an African-American who went to [college] with him. . . . I never saw even a hint of racism.” Others have reported the same. Ben Shapiro, who worked under Bannon at his website, Breitbart, until departing earlier this year, wrote on his own site, “I have no evidence that Bannon’s a racist or that he’s an anti-Semite.””
Two people are to make you forget all of the hateful and inflammatory things Bannon has said and done under the banner of Breitbart, and then things he has said himself.
Yeah, that’s a real honest and straight shooter there, and definitely isn’t a racist, misogynist, or anti-Semite. Those are his own bloody words! But Tuttle does his best to distract you from what Bannon is.
“No, Steve Bannon is not Josef Goebbels. But he has provided a forum for people who spend their days photoshopping pictures of conservatives into ovens.”
Sorry, people like that deserve full cloth denouncement, not what Tuttle suggests.
“To conservative and liberal alike, that he has the ear of the next president of the United States (a man of no particular convictions, and loyal to no particular principles) should be a source of grave concern — and an occasion for common cause in the crucial task of the years to come: vigilance.”
Yeah, we should just keep an eye on this guy. Ignore his past behaviors, he deserves a mulligan. How about showing some sack and demanding this guy step down, like right now? If it were a Democrat the National Review would have blood flowing from its pages as they pursued this guy to the gates of hell. You know, in National Review fashion.
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This immediate attack you do on anything that doesn't align exactly with your beliefs, and what you want everyone else to believe is pretty tiring.
How about just attacking claptrap and garbage? Because that is what this is. I can see why you like National Review. It is long on philosophy and short on pragmatic thought. It is arguments of ideology rather than affect. I mean, this from a guy who argued until he was blue in the face that human rights are inherently Christian, ignoring the evidence to the contrary. And then you had/have the audacity to claim your righteousness in that cause. You really don’t get it, do you?
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Not even sure why you disagree so extremely with some of the things that I say.
Because you trot out stuff like this.
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Originally Posted by peter12
Conservative, but not partisan. They've been going after Trump and the GOP since day 1 of this whole thing. Not as good as it used to be, but NR is still one of the best publications out there.
William Kristol, and his cadre of wannabe intellectuals, fail at linking their philosophical underpinnings to affective governance. They are neo-conservative and they are extremely partisan. This is the publication that threw more support behind the Bush Administration more than any other. They showed their hand to everyone at the table, and, while their intentions have always been obvious to those who study political communication, they announced to the world what their beliefs are. They had their chance at nation building and they failed dramatically.
I think the left caused this by pushing some centrists to vote Trump. The more militant left is very vocal about "doing the right thing" and "thinking the right thing" and "saying the right thing" and LEGISLATING the right thing.
Centrists, especially the more libertarian ones, would have voted for Trump based on this. And the USA is much more libertarian than Canada, so I do think they had something to do with Trump's election. There is much more in play here than Republicans vs Democrats.
Ah, the militant left.
I'm over the excuse.
If it's easier for people to believe that centrists, moderates, casual liberals and conservatives alike were all so put off by the controlling ways of the oogey boogey safe spacers that they gave up any guise of self-determination and spine and voted for a man as questionable and reliant on whim as Trump, then so be it.
Trump won not as some "reject vote" of the left, or protest vote, he won because people wanted him to win.
Please, please stop denying this simple and basic fact. It's not a left v right issue, it's not "the left's fault," it's the fault of every single person who voted for Trump. Can you lay a little blame on Democrats for running a weak candidate? Sure, but this has absolutely nothing to do with "the left" and it's a boring and sad excuse to say so.
Own your decision, or admit you're thin skinned and have the resolve of a wet paper bag. Those are the options. "Blame the other side for making you do it" isn't one. I make my decisions and I'm not always proud of them, but I don't blame others for the making.
Voting because you want to stick it to someone who hurt your feelings is embarrassing. Let's end the reliance of this excuse already.
Last edited by PepsiFree; 01-31-2017 at 12:07 PM.
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If it's easier for people to believe that centrists, moderates, casual liberals and conservatives alike were all so put off by the controlling ways of the oogey boogey safe spacers that they gave up any guise of self-determination and spine and voted for a man as questionable and reliant on whim as Trump, then so be it.
Trump won not as some "reject vote" of the left, or protest vote, he won because people wanted him to win.
Please, please stop denying this simple and basic fact. It's not a left v right issue, it's not "the left's fault," it's the fault of every single person who voted for Trump. Can you lay a little blame on Democrats for running a weak candidate? Sure, but this has absolutely nothing to do with "the left" and it's a boring and sad excuse to say so.
Own your decision, or admit you're thin skinned and have the resolve of a wet paper bag. Those are the options. "Blame the other side for making you do it" isn't one.
Voting because you want to stick it to someone who hurt your feelings is embarrassing. Let's end the reliance of this excuse already.
In the end he won because enough people lives didn't get any better, or got worse, while they constantly hear about how much better the country is doing. You add that to the racists and the Republicans no matter what voters, and you get this.
Also the Dems fast-tracking a terrible campaigner to counter their own populist upswell didn't exactly inspire either.
If it's easier for people to believe that centrists, moderates, casual liberals and conservatives alike were all so put off by the controlling ways of the oogey boogey safe spacers that they gave up any guise of self-determination and spine and voted for a man as questionable and reliant on whim as Trump, then so be it.
Trump won not as some "reject vote" of the left, or protest vote, he won because people wanted him to win.
Please, please stop denying this simple and basic fact. It's not a left v right issue, it's not "the left's fault," it's the fault of every single person who voted for Trump. Can you lay a little blame on Democrats for running a weak candidate? Sure, but this has absolutely nothing to do with "the left" and it's a boring and sad excuse to say so.
Own your decision, or admit you're thin skinned and have the resolve of a wet paper bag. Those are the options. "Blame the other side for making you do it" isn't one.
Voting because you want to stick it to someone who hurt your feelings is embarrassing. Let's end the reliance of this excuse already.
Pepsi, you've gotten so vicious over the past 3 months.
It's just sad watching you adopt a false dichotomy, resisting the resistance because it's resisting.
#### like this is just factually incorrect:
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Originally Posted by Niki Niki Nine Door
Well that depends if you legitimately think they're cutting off their nose. I don't really think some midwest Rust Belters would have been impacted differently in either direction regardless of who won this election. So why the hell do they care? They see one party who keeps claiming everything is better, but they don't see it in their lives so what's the reaction. They don't want the same so they vote for the different.
White Rust Belters were some of the biggest beneficiaries in the country of the ACA.
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Originally Posted in Corsi's Bible
Blue-collar whites remain the locus of opposition to the law. In the Election Day exit poll, the share of whites without a college degree that said the ACA “goes too far” was nearly double the combined portion that said it didn’t go far enough or was about right. By comparison, non-whites split by more than 2 to 1 in favor of those more positive responses, and college-educated whites divided about evenly. The blue-collar whites who said the law went too far preferred Trump over Hillary Clinton by nearly 13 to 1, according to results from the CNN polling unit.
And yet, for all this skepticism, in practice millions of blue-collar whites have gained coverage under the law, particularly in states critical to the Republican electoral map. Using census data, the Urban Institute recently calculated that from 2010 through 2015, more non-college-educated whites gained coverage than college-educated whites and minorities combined in all five of the key Rustbelt states that flipped from Obama in 2012 to Trump in 2016: Iowa, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. Whites without a college degree also represented a majority of those gaining coverage under the law in core Trump states like Indiana, West Virginia, Kentucky, Arkansas, and Oklahoma.
These states often saw enormous reductions in the number of uninsured working-class whites: about 40 percent in Indiana, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin; roughly 50 percent in Ohio, Iowa, and Michigan; and 60 percent in West Virginia and Kentucky.
Because minorities represented most of those gaining coverage in many of the biggest states, like California and Texas, they still represented a majority of those obtaining health insurance nationwide, the Urban Institute found. But in all, 6.2 million non-college-educated whites have gained insurance under the law, compared with about 9 million minorities. Obamacare slashed the share of uninsured non-college-educated whites from 20 percent in 2010 to 12 percent in 2015.
I think it's idiotic and I think it's sad watching you fall into it.
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In the end he won because enough people lives didn't get any better, or got worse, while they constantly hear about how much better the country is doing. You add that to the racists and the Republicans no matter what voters, and you get this.
Also the Dems fast-tracking a terrible campaigner to counter their own populist upswell didn't exactly inspire either.
Agree 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12
Pepsi, you've gotten so vicious over the past 3 months.
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This isn't accurate. Lots of whites have done better than ever - who makes up the majority of Silicon Valley tech elites?
People with a post-secondary education who favored Clinton by 9 points. And that happens to be the largest lead a Democratic Presidential candidate has had in that category since they began asking that question in exit polls.
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This isn't just whites tightening their belts or having to share a drinking fountain, it is the worst heroin/suicide/divorce epidemic in American history.
No, it is the absolute collapse of white working class communities in certain regions of the United States, and a response against the constant moralizing and mockery of the urban elite who callously pursue policies that cause further disruption and decay in these communities.
How can people not see this? Also, why are people so quick to call racist when it was these same white working-class deplorables who flocked to Obama in droves in 2008 and 2012? Why? Because he said that he had their back. Now Trump does the same, and you wonder why they elected him.
What did Hillary Clinton have to say to the coal miners in West Virginia?
Non-college educated whites certainly didn't "flock to Obama in droves". Romney led by 25 points in that category and McCain led by about 20. Other than Mondale in '84 and Kerry in '04, Obama's share of the non-college educated white vote in '08 and '12 were the two poorest performances by a Democratic Presidential candidate with that demographic since the 1970s.
Like it or not, education was the biggest demographic driver behind this election, with race coming in a close second. To ignore that is to ignore reality.
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People with a post-secondary education who favored Clinton by 9 points. And that happens to be the largest lead a Democratic Presidential candidate has had in that category since they began asking that question in exit polls.
Non-college educated whites certainly didn't "flock to Obama in droves". Romney led by 25 points in that category and McCain led by about 20. Other than Mondale in '84 and Kerry in '04, Obama's share of the non-college educated white vote in '08 and '12 were the two poorest performances by a Democratic Presidential candidate with that demographic since the 1970s.
Like it or not, education was the biggest demographic driver behind this election, with race coming in a close second. To ignore that is to ignore reality.
This isn't a significant departure from what I just said.
This stuff turns moderates away from your party. This is a candidate for the DNC chair:
Yeah, imagine being poor white person in Ohio and hearing this coming from the Democratic party. Blanket statements about privilege based on race and telling white people to shut up. It's not "hurt feelings" that make people turn away from rhetoric like this. One party is basically telling you to take a hike, while also telling you've been the perpatrator of this vast race imbalance system and profiting unfairly from it. I guess everyone struggling with vanishing jobs and a vicious heroin epidemic missed the memo on how privileged they are, thank goodness the Dems will always be there to remind them while demanding their vote at the same time.
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