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Old 07-15-2017, 05:57 PM   #41
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I think Backlund is presently a core player: he is still in the prime of his career, and is currently one of the three best forwards on a team whose championship window is starting to open. Backlund is not easily replaceable, and I don't believe there is a player in the system that will be in a position to displace him for another four or five years.


I really think the goal needs to be keeping all three. Ideally both Tkachuk and Bennett become so good that Backlund does become expendable, but how confident are we that this will happen?

I tend to think that a three year deal is a non-starter for Backlund, but I also agree that the risk of anything over six years is unappealing. I think a five year deal for Backlund is ideal, and a six year contract that carries him to 34-years-old is still a manageable term for both sides.
I would equate Backlund to the same level of player that Staal was in Pittsburgh. When push came to shove Pittsburgh didn't hesitate to move Staal, because they knew where the salary structure was headed and Staal's demands were headed. I think they made the right decision. I would think that if pushed, Treliving would not hesitate to move Backlund. This is not a slight against Backlund. He's a very good player and is one of those pairs that the Flames obviously leverage to make the forward lines work. But you have to recognize where he fits in the big picture and in the long term. There has to be a number that the Flames are comfortable with, and any more you have to move him. I think that number is $5Mx5, max, and that might even be pushing it considering the trajectory of young Mr. Tkachuk.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:14 PM   #42
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The reality of the league now is that you cant keep all your good players if they get to a certain price point.

Backlund is staring that point right in the face. If he wants a good chance to win in Calgary, he will need to accept a short term somewhat lower deal, otherwise he will have to be moved. Its his choice as much as it is Trelivings.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:28 PM   #43
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Backlund's cap hit is already a higher 3.57/per. Adding 1.5-2m to that isn't going to break the Flames cap structure. Yes tough decisions need to be made but the center ice positions is one where I'm willing to be spend more. Stajan's 3.125 is off the books this summer, when Backlund's extension will start, even half of that to Backlund still leaves over a million to play with.

Currently they have just over seven million to toy with, with only Bennett left to sign. They've got the room to play. If Treliving really feels like our "window" is starting he's not jettison Backlund for picks.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:41 PM   #44
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Backlund's cap hit is already a higher 3.57/per. Adding 1.5-2m to that isn't going to break the Flames cap structure. Yes tough decisions need to be made but the center ice positions is one where I'm willing to be spend more. Stajan's 3.125 is off the books this summer, when Backlund's extension will start, even half of that to Backlund still leaves over a million to play with.

Currently they have just over seven million to toy with, with only Bennett left to sign. They've got the room to play. If Treliving really feels like our "window" is starting he's not jettison Backlund for picks.
I'm not certain if you're approaching the salary issue in the right manner. You need to be thinking three to five years out when you're signing players. Sure, the Flames have space right now, but what happens when Tkachuk is up? What happens when the next group of bridge deals are done? What is that effect in the salary structure? Treliving's job is to project into the future and have a good idea how his players are going to look, and have that factored into the salary structure. Overpaying a guy this year, on a multi-year deal, hurts your ability to retain players down the road. There's a little bit if three dimensional chess at play, and you really need to trust your projections, especially where players are most likely to shake out. I hope they can somehow keep Backlund, but they need to find a number that works long term. Odds are Bennett and Tkachuk both need big raises before Backlund's next deal is up.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:46 PM   #45
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In Tre we trust. If he gets a Backlund extension done this summer I am pretty confident it will be on terms the organization can live with.

Otherwise the option is to wait, see how things unfold this season, get a better read on Bennett and Jankowski, and deal with Backs as a pendng UFA.

It pretty safe to assume Tre won't break the bank to get a deal done this summer.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:52 PM   #46
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There's a little bit if three dimensional chess at play, and you really need to trust your projections, especially where players are most likely to shake out.
If you're trusting your projections, the only projection you need to trust is the one you're making for Backlund. If you're confident he will outperform or live up to his contract, and hold positive value, you can move him later as an asset even if he's on a long term deal
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:00 PM   #47
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The reality of the league now is that you cant keep all your good players if they get to a certain price point.

Backlund is staring that point right in the face. If he wants a good chance to win in Calgary, he will need to accept a short term somewhat lower deal, otherwise he will have to be moved. Its his choice as much as it is Trelivings.
He doesn't need to do anything or accept anything less than market value. He's been one of the better Calgary Flames in the last several years on and off the ice.

Give him what he deserves or another team will and we will miss him dearly.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:06 PM   #48
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I would equate Backlund to the same level of player that Staal was in Pittsburgh. When push came to shove Pittsburgh didn't hesitate to move Staal, because they knew where the salary structure was headed and Staal's demands were headed. I think they made the right decision. I would think that if pushed, Treliving would not hesitate to move Backlund. This is not a slight against Backlund. He's a very good player and is one of those pairs that the Flames obviously leverage to make the forward lines work. But you have to recognize where he fits in the big picture and in the long term. There has to be a number that the Flames are comfortable with, and any more you have to move him. I think that number is $5Mx5, max, and that might even be pushing it considering the trajectory of young Mr. Tkachuk.
I don't think that this is an accurate comparison at all given the circumstances between the Penguins' cap situation and what Backlund's value to the Flames.

The Penguins had to deal with almost 30% (17.4M) of their cap being eaten by both Crosby and Malkin alone whereas the most that the Flames have to deal with is 13.5M between Giordano and Gaudreau. Even if you add another player to the equation of each teams' big 3 (Letang and Monahan respectively), the cap difference is still significant enough that very few teams can look to Pittsburgh as a comparable.

Backlund exists as the current #2 for this season and possibly the next. As it stands there's still a lot of question marks down the middle between the likes of Bennett and Jankowski. Great potential that could absolutely propel this team into contender status but major what if's remaining to be seen.


On the more subtle thought of Treliving not giving in to contract demands, I do wonder about that. He does seem to be the type to reward players appropriately and get solid contracts from key signings in the past but as any GM does, there's always been that extra little bit that the fans might not agree with. A couple extra years on Gio's deal, a little too much for Bouma's deal...I believe that Backlund's camp is going to work something out on something that is in the 32m range, whether it's 4.57m over 7 years or 5.33 over 6. A little bit much for a bit too long than what we as fans would find idea, as is the case for a lot of tricky contracts like this.

Last note, comparable I tried to look at the multiple centers who were in that top 6 two way role and signed extensions around 28-29. Most signed until they were at least 33, taking around 7+% of the cap when they signed. Anything below 5M would be a steal.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:06 PM   #49
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He doesn't need to do anything or accept anything less than market value. He's been one of the better Calgary Flames in the last several years on and off the ice.

Give him what he deserves or another team will and we will miss him dearly.



If he wants to stay in Calgary...he aint getting 6X6 or whatever his value ends up being...which is what i said.

But thanks for the contribution.

Oh...and he hasnt been good for "several" years. He has been good for 2. That's it.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:10 PM   #50
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Backlund's cap hit is already a higher 3.57/per. Adding 1.5-2m to that isn't going to break the Flames cap structure. Yes tough decisions need to be made but the center ice positions is one where I'm willing to be spend more. Stajan's 3.125 is off the books this summer, when Backlund's extension will start, even half of that to Backlund still leaves over a million to play with.

Currently they have just over seven million to toy with, with only Bennett left to sign. They've got the room to play. If Treliving really feels like our "window" is starting he's not jettison Backlund for picks.
That's the right way to look at things IMO.

Treliving's moves over the offseason suggest he's going all in. He's traded away most of the top picks for 2018 and 2019 to acquire a D-man in his prime and a starting goalie.

Trading away their 3rd best forward is going against the grain of his apparent plan based on recent actions.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:26 PM   #51
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I do think he'll get an extension, but it won't a long term one. That's just prudent asset management.

He's this team's Bob Gainey, for a lack of a better comparable. You win with players similar to Backlund.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:27 PM   #52
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If he wants to stay in Calgary...he aint getting 6X6 or whatever his value ends up being...which is what i said.

But thanks for the contribution.

Oh...and he hasnt been good for "several" years. He has been good for 2. That's it.
He's only been good for 2 years to the fans who can't analyze a player's game without looking at points. He's been great defensively for a while now and contributed a lot to the Flames.

And you don't know what he will get or what it will take to keep him here. The balls more in his court and the Flames will bend over for him because he's a good player. They recently gave a much worse player in Brouwer a lot of money so it's not far fetched to believe the Flames will bend to keep a much, much better player.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:47 PM   #53
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He's only been good for 2 years to the fans who can't analyze a player's game without looking at points. He's been great defensively for a while now and contributed a lot to the Flames.

And you don't know what he will get or what it will take to keep him here. The balls more in his court and the Flames will bend over for him because he's a good player. They recently gave a much worse player in Brouwer a lot of money so it's not far fetched to believe the Flames will bend to keep a much, much better player.
LOL...he has been good (even better than good actually) for 2 years...point wise and otherwise. Revisionist history to suggest otherwise.

No i dont know what he will get which i pointed out yet again..but what i said to begin with and then again is that he wont get from Calgary what he could get in an open market, of that im 100% certain.

Hey, I hope he stays forever at a team friendly price, but thats very very unlikely.

No idea what Brouwer being brought in as a RW UFA has to do with anything, but OK.
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Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:48 PM   #54
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I do think he'll get an extension, but it won't a long term one. That's just prudent asset management.

He's this team's Bob Gainey, for a lack of a better comparable. You win with players similar to Backlund.
Totally agree.

I will say though that if he isnt re-upped by the trade deadline, they HAVE to move him. Losing him for nothing would be disaterous.
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Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:17 PM   #55
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people seem to equate "good" with point totals... Backes has been a workhorse for the Flames for a while now...

while he may be under appreciated by some, his actual numbers paint a very different story about his value to the team.

http://thehockeywriters.com/mikael-b...arys-backbone/

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Old 07-15-2017, 09:39 PM   #56
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I do think he'll get an extension, but it won't a long term one. That's just prudent asset management.
I can't think of any reason why Backlund would sign a short term deal.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:58 PM   #57
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If he wants to stay in Calgary...he aint getting 6X6 or whatever his value ends up being...which is what i said.

But thanks for the contribution.

Oh...and he hasnt been good for "several" years. He has been good for 2. That's it.
Disagree completely.

Backlund has been good for about four years now. Or at the very least three of the last four years. That's plenty of games and seasons in todays game for a longer big contract. A plethora of contracts have been given out for much less then that.

You'd be hard pressed to tell me 39 points and 18 goals in 2013-2014 wasn't a good season. Especially since this is the season his strong two-way game started to truly emerge.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:11 AM   #58
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That's the right way to look at things IMO.

Treliving's moves over the offseason suggest he's going all in. He's traded away most of the top picks for 2018 and 2019 to acquire a D-man in his prime and a starting goalie.

Trading away their 3rd best forward is going against the grain of his apparent plan based on recent actions.
I would actually say that Treliving hasn't gone all-in yet. Smith has been the exception to the rule this off-season, but desperate times called for desperate measures.

The rest of his moves have involved either trading picks for established but young players (Stone, Hamilton, Hamonic, Lazar) or trading older players for picks (Glencross, Hudler) or trading older prospects for slightly younger prospects/picks (Granlund and Baertschi).

Smith is the definite exception. Elliott was SUPPOSED to work out and stick around a number of years as well last year.

I would classify 'all-in' when a team starts trading futures for a 'win now' mentality. Calgary I believe is still hovering around 'be a favorite for the playoffs and try to make noise'.

I do agree that trading Backlund away does indeed go against the grain there, either for a 'win-now' or a 'win in a few seasons' standpoint.

It will be interesting to see how Treliving adjusts to a compete 'win now' mode.
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:06 AM   #59
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I would actually say that Treliving hasn't gone all-in yet.
Treliving has pushed in as many chips as most organizations could at this point. He's put together his backend by making deals and has depleted our top draft picks through to 2020. He's opened up a three year window for this team to win with that blue line group. The budget is pretty tight and he's got few options left to address any significant holes. He may not be all in, but his chip count is way down and he can't rely on that stack to buy pots any longer. Fortunately, he's got a strong hand. It will be fun to watch it playout.
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:09 PM   #60
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Treliving is far from all in.

What he has done is put together a core that is ready to win now but can be managed and reworked for years to come.

There isn't a lot of pressure on the cap, and all of the key players, other than Giordano, are very young.

This team is as solid as one could hope, coming out of a rebuild, but they have not started leveraging yet - that is still a ways off IMO.
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