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Old 03-08-2017, 01:29 PM   #21
CorsiHockeyLeague
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ARC by itself - the TVs have it built in. I'm honestly kind of impressed at how good those Vizio sets apparently are for a bargain brand.
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Old 03-08-2017, 02:57 PM   #22
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I have been doing 4k for a few years now and honestly don't feel it is anything to get worked up about especially for home consumption. The signals are compressed to #### to start with. A high quality 4K stream runs in the neighborhood of 1200mbps so by the time you get down to your cable stream of 50 to 100 you can imagine what has been done to that file.

Size of screen and distance to it is absolutely a big deal, for 65" monitors we do not go beyond 6 feet, no point as CHL posted you cannot distinguish the resolution difference anyways from farther out. I also find the display technology makes a big difference. I am extremely underwhelmed by LCD, even at 4K it looks like crap. A 1080P OLED looks better than 4K LCD. Plus, if you get a poor TV that doesn't scale well the image will look even worse, I find it cartoonish, unnatural. If you can, bring a source that you like in 1080 and get it displayed on the UHD monitor you are looking to buy. Also try live sports, I hate the way hockey and football can look on some scaled TVs, again depends on the quality of the conversion.

Personally I think it is a year or two to early to be investing in 4K. You will get the same amount of enjoyment out of 90% of what you do with it and save $500-$1000. Or invest in better quality components.
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:24 PM   #23
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What the #### are you talking about psicodude? The chart doesn't say there's no difference between 480p and 4k. It says you can't tell the difference between different resolutions at a given distance because the human eye isn't able to identify resolution at those distances. That is scientific fact. It's biology.

If you look at a 60' screen from thirty feet, you will not be able to discern which screen is 4k and which is 480p on the basis of resolution alone. Of course you'll probably be able to tell the difference because an old 480p TV is going to be much worse in many other respects besides resolution than a newly created 4k screen. But if you took, say, a top of the line Samsung or Panasonic 1080p plasma from 2013 in 55", put it next to a random 55" 4k LED screen running a 4k video in a dark room, and tried to decide which was a better picture from 15 feet away, you'd pick the plasma because of better colour depth and black levels and because you can't see the difference in resolution. Period. This is simply reality.
Relax Corsi. I didn't say you were stupid, I said that chart is stupid. There are too many variables involved to make a chart stating that at x feet away you need a y size screen to notice a difference. Like you said, different screen qualities, features, and even eyesight make it nearly impossible to come up with a magic formula like this chart implies there is. I even stated that the difference between 1080 and 4K isn't as huge as the marketing suggests and that video sources are so compressed that it doesn't matter much anyway.

The point I was trying to make is that 4K is pretty much the standard for TV's in 2017 and that the OP should future proof his investment by making the jump now. The real bonus is that a current model 4K screen is going to come with a lot of features that will pay off in the years to come as well, such as CEC, HDR, Dolby Vision, etc.
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:27 PM   #24
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ARC by itself - the TVs have it built in. I'm honestly kind of impressed at how good those Vizio sets apparently are for a bargain brand.
Not sure I'd call them a "bargain brand", they aren't Haier or anything like that. They are appropriately priced high end TV's. I guess if people want to pay for a Sansung or Sony badge, good for them!

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All I need to check is if one of the HDMI ports on my receiver says ARC and I'll know it's compatible right? I'll look into this tonight and get some longer HDMI cables to connect all the components to the TV directly. I'm assuming on the TV 1 HDMI is specific to ARC however the other 3 is there a differance? will one be better for Xbox vs cable?
Yes, there will be 1 input on your receiver that will say HDMI/ARC, thats the one you run the cable from your HDMI1/ARC from the TV (on mine its 1, on yours it should be too).

Now for the Xbox, the best input for gaming is HDMI5, thats a designated "low latency" input. I didn't use "game mode" on the display settings for the Xbox, but that should reduce the latency even more (I do activate it though when I play emulated Nintendo games).

The biggest thing, learn the remote, learn where your picture settings are in the Vizio Cast app in the tablet, and how to adjust all of those settings (including turning on CEC/ARC because its off by default). You can adjust literally everything through the tablet because there is no on screen menus. And the setting stick for each individual input which is great, not universal to the TV. You can also install Vizio Cast on your phone and use it as a remote as well.
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:29 PM   #25
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should be fine in what way? using both optical and ARC or just ARC by itself?

I'm not very tech savvy when it comes to home entertainment set ups


Thanks everyone for your input on this. Want to make sure I have the thing set up as best as possible.

Also I'm going to run Ethernet directly from modem to TV so speeds will be better streaming netflix.
If your audio works through ARC (like I said, its a flaky standard), then don't bother with the optical. In my post, I only added optical because my audio return wasn't working right, which is either a handshake or a cable problem I need to resolve. Using both is redundant (and your receiver will probably default to the optical anyhow, its always on)
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Old 03-08-2017, 04:41 PM   #26
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Relax Corsi. I didn't say you were stupid, I said that chart is stupid. There are too many variables involved to make a chart stating that at x feet away you need a y size screen to notice a difference. Like you said, different screen qualities, features, and even eyesight make it nearly impossible to come up with a magic formula like this chart implies there is. I even stated that the difference between 1080 and 4K isn't as huge as the marketing suggests and that video sources are so compressed that it doesn't matter much anyway.

The point I was trying to make is that 4K is pretty much the standard for TV's in 2017 and that the OP should future proof his investment by making the jump now. The real bonus is that a current model 4K screen is going to come with a lot of features that will pay off in the years to come as well, such as CEC, HDR, Dolby Vision, etc.
The chart is stupid. Anyone can walk into a store and immediately see the difference between a 1080p and a 4k screen. It wasn't even close when I was doing my shopping, to the point where you could pick them out long before walking up to the wall. The pixels on a large format 1080p screen are quite large.......I'm talking 65-80" screens where it was most apparent.
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:09 PM   #27
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Anyone can walk into a store and immediately see the difference between a 1080p and a 4k screen.
If that was true, how do so many people watch SD channels on their cable boxes without realizing it?
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Old 03-08-2017, 05:12 PM   #28
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If that was true, how do so many people watch SD channels on their cable boxes without realizing it?
Some people have differing standards for whats acceptable, or whats discernible. As soon as you point it out to them, they realize it. I did this with my GF when shopping so she knew what the advantage of a 4k set was. Now, she's not one of those mistakenly watches SD people, but after a quick comparison she was able to pick out what was what and got on board quite fast. This included looking at the same manufacturer too (ie: D65 vs. M65)

Keep in mind, your TV will upconvert SD signal as well (I believe the cable boxes send it as 480i), now it won't be as sharp, because theres just simply too much data to "fill in", but it won't look as ####ty as on an SD TV because of the software.

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Old 03-08-2017, 06:05 PM   #29
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OP please ensure you purchase a 4K TV with HDR capability. HDR is more noticeable than 4K IMO. As far as your receiver goes if you like the passthrough feature you will probably have to upgrade unless your receiver has HDMI passthrough for both 4K and HDR. I have a Sony receiver that's about two years old and it has 4K passthrough but unfortunately it will not pass through HDR from my XB1 and PS4 Pro so for now I have HDMI sources going directly to the TV. When it comes to televisions up converting 4K I have found that the XB1 and PS4 Pro do a far better job of up converting than the television can.
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:29 PM   #30
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Here is a good list of Ultra HD Premium Certified tv's, in a nutshell these tv's meet a standard for brightness etc that will get the best result for HDR. 4k is relatively minor contributor to overall picture quality, HDR and color gamut is where it is at. Please note there is no better substitute for picture quality than one of these tv's paired with a UHD Bluray player.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/286-la...l#post41714961
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:45 PM   #31
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Here is a good list of Ultra HD Premium Certified tv's, in a nutshell these tv's meet a standard for brightness etc that will get the best result for HDR. 4k is relatively minor contributor to overall picture quality, HDR and color gamut is where it is at. Please note there is no better substitute for picture quality than one of these tv's paired with a UHD Bluray player.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/286-la...l#post41714961
Not a terribly inclusive list.....the TV OP is looking at is HDR+ FALD 4k and its not on there

EDIT: just realized thats probably because Vizio rolled the update out in August on those, thats an old post
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Old 03-08-2017, 06:47 PM   #32
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High Dynamic Range... TV? Interesting.
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Old 03-08-2017, 07:06 PM   #33
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High Dynamic Range... TV? Interesting.
It's pretty amazing. Increasing resolution is nothing new but with HDR colors just pop like nothing we have seen in TV before.
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:31 PM   #34
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Not a terribly inclusive list.....the TV OP is looking at is HDR+ FALD 4k and its not on there

EDIT: just realized thats probably because Vizio rolled the update out in August on those, thats an old post
This is a performance specification just like THX is to audio, these tv's have to meet certain performance standards in order to be included. The M series is not bright enough which will hurt it's HDR's performance. The post is updated from my understanding regularly, the M series simply just didn't make the grade as it was not certified by the alliance. Doesn't necessarily make the M series a bad TV just not the best option for HDR.

On a side note, I highly recommend to my clients to always get an extended warranty on TV's, failure rates on virtually all brands is terrible IMO. Usually extended warranties are cash grabs but I do recommend them for tv's.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:42 PM   #35
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This is a performance specification just like THX is to audio, these tv's have to meet certain performance standards in order to be included. The M series is not bright enough which will hurt it's HDR's performance. The post is updated from my understanding regularly, the M series simply just didn't make the grade as it was not certified by the alliance. Doesn't necessarily make the M series a bad TV just not the best option for HDR.

On a side note, I highly recommend to my clients to always get an extended warranty on TV's, failure rates on virtually all brands is terrible IMO. Usually extended warranties are cash grabs but I do recommend them for tv's.
Lol. "the alliance"..well if someone wants to pay a thousand or two difference for a couple extra nits of brightness, all the power to them. The M is bright enough to make my eyes water, so I'm not sure what they're watching! You won't be disappointed with the M, think of the playoff tickets you can buy with the cash you save!


Now on the warranty front, Costco sells the extended for $99, and that then totals 5 years, hassle free. No brainer. They'll even come get it

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Old 03-09-2017, 07:40 AM   #36
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It's pretty amazing. Increasing resolution is nothing new but with HDR colors just pop like nothing we have seen in TV before.
Yeah, it's been a photography thing for some time now. Will have to look into it more on the ol' television.
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:47 AM   #37
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Ordered the Vizio M 70-D3 last night. Cant wait to watch playoffs on this thing! now I have to go get extra high speed HDMI cables to connect componets to TV behind wall.

thanks for all the comments and help everyone
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:50 AM   #38
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Don't go crazy on the hdmi cables, as it won't really make a difference. I'm not saying to get the $3 Chinese cables, but don't go spending $100 either. I'm not an expert, but I believe monoprice cables are still the best value.

Great choice on TV, by the way. Check out the AVSforums for some great recommendations on calibration settings.
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:57 AM   #39
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Having worked in the video production industry, I can tell you that broadcasters regularly compress video and providers may also compress a compressed signal which immediately causes the benefits of these sources to slide. Even after 10+ years of HD standard broadcasting, you still see sub-standard content being passed off as full HD. I have complete confidence in saying it will be another 5-10 years before HD is even considered to be phased out into 4K en masse and likely even longer before you start to see recurring, high end 4K content constantly available.

Go out and buy the best HD equipment you can afford instead of going for a 4K device that isn't even supported by much at all right now. A screen that can process the blacks and colours extremely well is more valuable than anything else imo. As other's have mentioned, even under the best conditions you'd be hard pressed to notice an immense difference between 4k and HD unless you are considering a top of the line screen against a mediocre one....This isn't at all similar to the massive SD-HD changes we experienced years ago.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:22 AM   #40
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It's pretty amazing. Increasing resolution is nothing new but with HDR colors just pop like nothing we have seen in TV before.
What content are you using for the HDR? Thanks!
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