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Old 03-07-2017, 02:15 PM   #1
MacDaddy77
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upgrading tv looking at a 4k SUHD samsung 70" tv. i currently have a dolby receiver with 5.1 surround sound.

Currently all my electronics, Telus cable, Xbox one s, minix blue ray are all connected to my receiver and one HDMI cable goes out to TV.

do I need to upgrade to a 4k receiver to get the actual benefit of the 4k tv and cable/minix/Xbox?
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Old 03-07-2017, 07:12 PM   #2
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Well there are a few things. One is simply the source content, is it 4k. Netflix has a bunch of 4k content that is easy to access (under UHD). Second is your manual should state which input is "best" for viewing 4k content, they all have a preferential one (just like there is a preferential one for gaming). Lastly, yes your receiver would need to be able to put through 4k output to your TV. Now, would you see much difference? Maybe, most TV's upconvert the signals to 4k using various software methods, so most content looks better than it would in its native form.

I would recommend you do it the other way around, activate CEC or ARC on both the TV and the receiver, connect your sources direct to your TV, connect your TV to your receiver via the ARC input/output. This should route your audio through the TV to the receiver, it will also turn on the receiver and control the volume via any remote in your system, but it will keep the video signal native to the source direct to the TV.

Now, ARC isn't a reliable thing, despite it being a "standard". Sometimes it just doesn't work, sometimes its HDMI cable fussy, sometimes the devices don't want to handshake and stuff just doesn't work. Its too bad, because audio over HDMI is superior as its digital, and with many 4k streams you'll get the true audio of the source.

Should audio over HDMI fail because of ARC issues, you still have other options. I found my ARC/CEC was flaky with my Vizio M and my Marantz receiver, it worked for months, then worked intermittantly. Its probably my HDMI cable and the handshake issues I talked about, but I went back to optical audio (via TOSLINK), which for the most part is indistinguishable, especially when talking about most streams or audio that you're watching. It still does DTS and dolby and all of that. Its just optical instead of digital, and it works without fail every time. CEC/ARC now just makes sure that the receiver turns on when the TV does, and when I adjust volume I can do it from any remote and it controls the receiver.

Clear as mud?

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Old 03-07-2017, 08:27 PM   #3
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Literally all you need to know as a threshold.



Normal viewing distance for most people is 10 feet from their TV. Are you buying a 75" or bigger TV? No? Then you're either wasting your money, or you'd better be planning to move your couch closer. Otherwise, your eyes are the lower resolution device.
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:40 PM   #4
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Are you buying a 75" or bigger TV? No?
If 'no' is the answer, 'why not' is the follow-up question
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:47 PM   #5
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I like the HDR in my TV more than the 4K.
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Old 03-08-2017, 08:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleks View Post
Well there are a few things. One is simply the source content, is it 4k. Netflix has a bunch of 4k content that is easy to access (under UHD). Second is your manual should state which input is "best" for viewing 4k content, they all have a preferential one (just like there is a preferential one for gaming). Lastly, yes your receiver would need to be able to put through 4k output to your TV. Now, would you see much difference? Maybe, most TV's upconvert the signals to 4k using various software methods, so most content looks better than it would in its native form.

I would recommend you do it the other way around, activate CEC or ARC on both the TV and the receiver, connect your sources direct to your TV, connect your TV to your receiver via the ARC input/output. This should route your audio through the TV to the receiver, it will also turn on the receiver and control the volume via any remote in your system, but it will keep the video signal native to the source direct to the TV.



Clear as mud?
I have no idea what any of this means! I'll search on google. now I'm looking at the Vizio M70-D3 anyone have that TV?
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:16 AM   #7
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I have the m65 d3, you'll love it. I didn't want to pay an extra $1000 for the 5 inches!
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Old 03-08-2017, 09:24 AM   #8
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I have the m65 d3, you'll love it. I didn't want to pay an extra $1000 for the 5 inches!
There is a joke here somewhere
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:09 AM   #9
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I have the m65 d3, you'll love it. I didn't want to pay an extra $1000 for the 5 inches!
With the google cast do I still need a minix box to stream? I have no experience with casting. Was it hard to figure out?
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Old 03-08-2017, 10:25 AM   #10
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With the google cast do I still need a minix box to stream? I have no experience with casting. Was it hard to figure out?
Yes, the native google cast works good for things like YouTube, Netflix, and stuff (will not work for Amazon video), but to stream and use things like kodi you need a box like a minix or matricom.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:00 AM   #11
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First, ignore that chart posted by Corsi because it's stupid. To suggest that there is little to no difference between 480p and 4K is silly. Try watching the next Flames game in 480p and let us know how that works for you. I will admit, however, that the jump from 1080p to 4k is not as noticeable and you would assume. I think this has more to do with the video sources being compressed/messed with because of bandwidth limitations. A true 4K stream is going to want around 30mpbs, which is problematic for a large percentage of this country. The debate is becoming moot, however, as 1080p screens are becoming extinct.

What Aleks post was about is a change in how inputs and outputs are managed in 2017. The "old way" (3 years ago) was to have use your receiver as the brain of the operations. Like you posted originally, you have a bunch of devices plugged into the receiver and one cable going from the receiver to your TV. You either manually change the input or use a smart remote to match whatever device you would like to watch, and the receiver outputs that content. You can still go with this model, but you would need a new receiver that has both 4K hdmi inputs and outputs as the receiver is "passing through" the video portion of whatever you are watching to the TV. Your other option, which Aleks properly explained, is to make the TV the brain of the operation. You would plug your source devices into the TV and then run one hdmi cable to your receiver. The technology called CEC/ARC merely sends a signal from the TV to your receiver to turn it on or off. You may want to look at this way of doing things if you aren't interested in buying a new receiver because your new 4K TV comes with the 4K hdmi ports already. You don't have to worry about which resolution the source is pushing out because the TV is able to automatically switch between 1080p and 4K.

I also have a Vizio TV and the casting works perfectly. The TV needs to be connected to your home network (wifi or cabled) and your mobile devices will be able to communicate with it. When inside an app like Netflix, YouTube, Spotify, etc. just press the "Cast" button and select your TV. It's generally that simple. The downside of casting is that you don't have a menu or anything on the TV. So instead of scrolling though movies on netflix that everyone in the room can see, you are looking at your phone/iPad and telling it to cast to your TV. Same result, just a different experience. It should be noted that casting is not supported by all apps or devices, which was explained above.

I hope that helps a bit.

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Old 03-08-2017, 11:03 AM   #12
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What the #### are you talking about psicodude? The chart doesn't say there's no difference between 480p and 4k. It says you can't tell the difference between different resolutions at a given distance because the human eye isn't able to identify resolution at those distances. That is scientific fact. It's biology.

If you look at a 60' screen from thirty feet, you will not be able to discern which screen is 4k and which is 480p on the basis of resolution alone. Of course you'll probably be able to tell the difference because an old 480p TV is going to be much worse in many other respects besides resolution than a newly created 4k screen. But if you took, say, a top of the line Samsung or Panasonic 1080p plasma from 2013 in 55", put it next to a random 55" 4k LED screen running a 4k video in a dark room, and tried to decide which was a better picture from 15 feet away, you'd pick the plasma because of better colour depth and black levels and because you can't see the difference in resolution. Period. This is simply reality.
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If 'no' is the answer, 'why not' is the follow-up question
Yeah, but it's more that you should buy a 4k projector if you want a screen size large enough for 4k to make any noticeable difference... and the reason you wouldn't do so is that they're just not affordable yet. You're paying $10,000 minimum.

Until then, the best you can do in terms of picture quality is OLED. Realistically though, any good TV you buy these days is 4k whether you want it or not, unless you're buying old stock.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:14 AM   #13
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All I need to check is if one of the HDMI ports on my receiver says ARC and I'll know it's compatible right? I'll look into this tonight and get some longer HDMI cables to connect all the components to the TV directly. I'm assuming on the TV 1 HDMI is specific to ARC however the other 3 is there a differance? will one be better for Xbox vs cable?
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:18 AM   #14
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It's not quite that simple. A lot of TV manufacturers will have ARC inputs that don't, for example, provide audio over HDMI in a higher quality than 2.0. And in some cases it depends on the source. So you might be getting audio over HDMI but only in two channels, rather than surround. From an audio quality standpoint it's more reliable to connect sources to the receiver rather than the TV, IMO.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:35 AM   #15
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So connect all components to TV and USE the ARC HDMI as well as Optical audit cord and I should get full 4k picture + my surround sound? I'll have to get 3 more hdmi cables + an optical cable if this is the case. I want to make sure the surround sound works but also that I'm getting the full benefit of the 4k tv
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:39 AM   #16
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What model of TV are you buying? You should be able to find out if you have 5.1 pass through on it, and whether it's DTS or Dolby Digital or both. If it's top of the line you shouldn't have a problem. I don't see a 70" SUHD tv on Samsung's website though, just 75 and 78.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:07 PM   #17
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What model of TV are you buying? You should be able to find out if you have 5.1 pass through on it, and whether it's DTS or Dolby Digital or both. If it's top of the line you shouldn't have a problem. I don't see a 70" SUHD tv on Samsung's website though, just 75 and 78.

buying Vizio M70-D3

https://www.costco.ca/Vizio-M70-D3-7...100299695.html
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:13 PM   #18
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The 2016 M series had 5.1 passthrough for DTS and Dolby Digital, so you should be fine.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:18 PM   #19
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You don't have to worry about which resolution the source is pushing out because the TV is able to automatically switch between 1080p and 4K.
No disagreement with psicodude but just a quick addendum on that sentence. He is absolutely correct that the TV automatically switches between 1080p, 1080i, and 4k. The extra bit is that all 4k TVs MUST upscale to 4k in order to display the image on the screen. So, you will be getting output on a 4K screen, but the upconversion technology on your TV becomes more important to make the image the best that it can be.

You also asked about xbox or other devices plugging in. I plug my 360 directly into one of the HDMI ports, output at 1080p, and let the TV upconvert. I have been going back and forth with optical and ARC to get the best audio and I haven't found the best one yet...I keep switching.

As for visual acuity, I find it slightly ironic that there was a huge kerfluffle about ps4 v xbox1 about rendering in 1080p etc. when, as CHL's chart shows, people may be sitting a distance away from their tv where it just doesn't matter.

I watch 4k Netflix, and it is really good. I sit the proper distance from my tv and you can really tell the difference in a native 4k show when you are looking for it. What do I mean by that? I mean that when you are watching something, you are watching it. you don't watch crap just because it is in 4k, you watch what you watch. Someone else mentioned HDR being a bit of a big deal for them, and you should consider that in your purchase as well.

You were asking about casting and I cast all of the time, but my preferred approach is to have apps already on the TV such as Netflix or youtube. I have been impressed with the Android TV platform as I can hit my server, youtube, internet, whatever. And having Netflix controls on one remote, well that makes it easier for the non technical people in my house.

Some of the most fun times that I have had with this tv (I have a sony) is using the youtube app; I have some buddies over and drinking and chatting and you can queue up videos on youtube so that they stream and just play. It is strangely fun to see old videos of songs that you had forgotten about because someone queued it up in your house using their mobile device (apple and android both work equally well). stupid I know...but strangely fun.

good luck in your purchase! I used rtings.com as a key source of my investigation on brands and price.
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Old 03-08-2017, 01:25 PM   #20
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The 2016 M series had 5.1 passthrough for DTS and Dolby Digital, so you should be fine.
should be fine in what way? using both optical and ARC or just ARC by itself?

I'm not very tech savvy when it comes to home entertainment set ups


Thanks everyone for your input on this. Want to make sure I have the thing set up as best as possible.

Also I'm going to run Ethernet directly from modem to TV so speeds will be better streaming netflix.
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