Woman demand apology from Porter Airlines.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

My issue isn't that she's complaining about the sexism, it's that she's somehow demanding an apology from the airline and flight attendant for handling the matter properly and in a professional way. She's really detracting from her message by wrongfully blaming the airline. Just makes her look like a dolt too.

Why did the airline have to get involved at all? Even if the guy couldn't find someone to switch with why should the airline care? What's he going to do, complain that his sexist beliefs aren't being respected? Cry me a river, being a sexist ####### is not a legitimate reason to ask to switch, the airline should've stayed out of it.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Why did the airline have to get involved at all? Even if the guy couldn't find someone to switch with why should the airline care? What's he going to do, complain that his sexist beliefs aren't being respected? Cry me a river, being a sexist ####### is not a legitimate reason to ask to switch, the airline should've stayed out of it.

Getting people seated so the airplane can move is something the airline should stay out of? Wow.

[Fuzz]

They should have told him to take his seat so everyone could board, and if they could find another one more suitable, he could move. Asking her to move was the wrong call.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Getting people seated so the airplane can move is something the airline should stay out of? Wow.

They already had seats that they had paid for, now this guy is trying to change that. He is the initiator, I said he is free to ask others to switch. Why should the airline care, get off the damn plane if you don't like it. Maybe next time, Mr. 14th century will think ahead and buy two seats.

Blows me away people are siding with this guy.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Getting people seated so the airplane can move is something the airline should stay out of? Wow.

Maybe they should have given him an ultimatum.

"Sir, we are taking off whether you're seated or not. So you can bounce around the plane during take off, or sit beside this lowly female. Your choice."

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Maybe they should have given him an ultimatum.

"Sir, we are taking off whether you're seated or not. So you can bounce around the plane during take off, or sit beside this lowly female. Your choice."

Well that represents a legitimate safety concern for other passengers. A simple "sit down or GTFO" should've sufficed.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I can't believe anyone thinks this is ok. Option 1, get off the plane and keep buying tickets until you sit next to someone you like. Option 2, learn how to function in secular western society.

Porter airlines was already teetering on the brink of extinction. I expect this will be the final nail in the coffin. We should not be catering to discrimination from religous fundamentalists.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

They already had seats that they had paid for, now this guy is trying to change that. He is the initiator, I said he is free to ask others to switch. Why should the airline care, get off the damn plane if you don't like it. Maybe next time, Mr. 14th century will think ahead and buy two seats.

Blows me away people are siding with this guy.

No one has sided with this guy. No one has said he was right. No one, at least no one still defending it, has said the lady had to move. The lady didn't move, and people are fine with that.

First, the lady is assuming (probably correctly) that the Jewish man did not want to sit in the seat because he would be next to a woman.

So the flight attendant, as per his or her job, goes back to get people seated. It's literally like 90% of their job. The flight attendant sees the commotion and people not seated so asks if there is a problem, as per his/her job. The attendant is told by the lady that the Jewish man will not sit beside a woman. A bystander offers her seat to the lady. The flight attendant had the audacity to ask if that would be acceptable. That's all the lady is mad at apparently. When the lady rightfully refused, the flight attendant did his/her job and got the Jewish man seated.

Is a non-issue as far as the actions of the attendant. The attendant was simply trying to get people seated so they could leave. That's their entire gameplan when trying to load people on the plane. They didn't force the lady to move, they didn't treat her as a second-class citizen.

If people want to be mad at the ultra-orthodox Jewish people for their religious beliefs, have at it. But at no point did the airline do anything wrong.

Originally Posted by MattyC

Maybe they should have given him an ultimatum.

"Sir, we are taking off whether you're seated or not. So you can bounce around the plane during take off, or sit beside this lowly female. Your choice."

Or they could get him seated, like they did. And we don't know what conversation was had between the man and the attendant. The only thing the attendant did was ask the lady if she wanted to switch places with a man who had offered her his seat. It's crazy people are finding the attendant to be at fault - it's arguable whether the attendant even knew what was happening considering the Jewish man never said he didn't want to sit next to a female and couldn't speak English well...

[Coach]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Well that represents a legitimate safety concern for other passengers. A simple "sit down or GTFO" should've sufficed.

Yeah it was tongue-in-cheek. If I was witness to this scenario, it would have been great to watch this old idiot try to fight the forces while the plane took off.

Actually, I probably would have switched seats with him. "Yes Mr flight attendant, I will switch seats with this classless, bigoted troglodyte."

I wonder what he would have done if the flight attendant was a lady.

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

They already had seats that they had paid for, now this guy is trying to change that. He is the initiator, I said he is free to ask others to switch. Why should the airline care, get off the damn plane if you don't like it. Maybe next time, Mr. 14th century will think ahead and buy two seats.

Blows me away people are siding with this guy.

I don't see anyone really siding with this guy, I see people saying she overreacted by being asked if she would be interested in moving. Besides its not like the flight attendant demanded she move he simply asked if she would would. She said no and they moved on.
Also it was never mentioned in the article that he said he would not sit beside her due to her uterus as she states. He simply asked people if they would switch seats with him. Maybe she had offensive BO that he noticed in the waiting area then realized he would be sitting beside her and wanted to switch. Sure it may have been her offensive uterus but he never said that, she did.

[Coach]

edit double post

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

No one has sided with this guy. No one has said he was right. No one, at least no one still defending it, has said the lady had to move. The lady didn't move, and people are fine with that.

First, the lady is assuming (probably correctly) that the Jewish man did not want to sit in the seat because he would be next to a woman.

So the flight attendant, as per his or her job, goes back to get people seated. It's literally like 90% of their job. The flight attendant sees the commotion and people not seated so asks if there is a problem, as per his/her job. The attendant is told by the lady that the Jewish man will not sit beside a woman. A bystander offers her seat to the lady. The flight attendant had the audacity to ask if that would be acceptable. That's all the lady is mad at apparently. When the lady rightfully refused, the flight attendant did his/her job and got the Jewish man seated.

Is a non-issue as far as the actions of the attendant. The attendant was simply trying to get people seated so they could leave. That's their entire gameplan when trying to load people on the plane. They didn't force the lady to move, they didn't treat her as a second-class citizen.

If people want to be mad at the ultra-orthodox Jewish people for their religious beliefs, have at it. But at no point did the airline do anything wrong.

Or they could get him seated, like they did. And we don't know what conversation was had between the man and the attendant. The only thing the attendant did was ask the lady if she wanted to switch places with a man who had offered her his seat. It's crazy people are finding the attendant to be at fault - it's arguable whether the attendant even knew what was happening considering the Jewish man never said he didn't want to sit next to a female and couldn't speak English well...

On second read it does appear as many do just think the lady is overacting. Apologies if that came out wrong but the line between the two is a little blurry to me when stories like this come out.

I can respect the attendant has a responsibility to get everyone seated. I just think they should've stopped short of asking her to move. They should have explored every other avanue first as it looks like they even do that as she didn't move and they had to find a different way to solve the problem anyway.

If it got to the point where absolutely no one was willing to move and the only option was to get the lady to move, I still wouldn't ask her. I would tell the guy he has to sit there or get off the plane. Who knows what company policy is here though. Maybe they fire you for that?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Again though, the man behind her had already offered to switch. From a flight attendant's perspective, it's just common sense to politely see if that would be satisfactory. I mean if you can accommodate everyone while quickly getting everyone seated, you need to explore that option. As long as the attendant wasn't rude, I don't see an issue with the attendant's actions and I bet every North American airline would have behaved the same way.

I do believe the woman had every right to refuse the switch out of principle though.

[karl262]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

No one has sided with this guy. No one has said he was right. No one, at least no one still defending it, has said the lady had to move. The lady didn't move, and people are fine with that.

First, the lady is assuming (probably correctly) that the Jewish man did not want to sit in the seat because he would be next to a woman.

So the flight attendant, as per his or her job, goes back to get people seated. It's literally like 90% of their job. The flight attendant sees the commotion and people not seated so asks if there is a problem, as per his/her job. The attendant is told by the lady that the Jewish man will not sit beside a woman. A bystander offers her seat to the lady. The flight attendant had the audacity to ask if that would be acceptable. That's all the lady is mad at apparently. When the lady rightfully refused, the flight attendant did his/her job and got the Jewish man seated.

Is a non-issue as far as the actions of the attendant. The attendant was simply trying to get people seated so they could leave. That's their entire gameplan when trying to load people on the plane. They didn't force the lady to move, they didn't treat her as a second-class citizen.

If people want to be mad at the ultra-orthodox Jewish people for their religious beliefs, have at it. But at no point did the airline do anything wrong.

Or they could get him seated, like they did. And we don't know what conversation was had between the man and the attendant. The only thing the attendant did was ask the lady if she wanted to switch places with a man who had offered her his seat. It's crazy people are finding the attendant to be at fault - it's arguable whether the attendant even knew what was happening considering the Jewish man never said he didn't want to sit next to a female and couldn't speak English well...

Well I like flying on public airlines as long as I don't have to sit next to any (insert specific type of person). If that situation comes up, I will ask for a seating change and if (insert specific type of person) doesn't like it and complains about it they're just wrong. The airline needs to accommodate and placate my displeasure with sitting next to any (insert specific type of person). I just hate those damn (insert specific type of person).

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by karl262

Well I like flying on public airlines as long as I don't have to sit next to any (insert specific type of person). If that situation comes up, I will ask for a seating change and if (insert specific type of person) doesn't like it and complains about it they're just wrong. The airline needs to accommodate and placate my displeasure with sitting next to any (insert specific type of person). I just hate those damn (insert specific type of person).

If the airline is able to accommodate you, i.e. find you a seat so they can get you to shut up and everyone else to their destination on time, I wont hold it against the airline. I'll reserve the right to judge you as a terrible person, and if (insert specific type of person) wants to complain about you, the more power to them. If (insert specific type of person) believes that the airline is at fault for you being a ######, then I will question if (insert specific type of person)'s anger is misplaced.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

If (insert specific type of person) believes that the airline is at fault for you being a ######, then I will question if (insert specific type of person)'s anger is misplaced.

Posting this again because I've yet to see anyone address this point:

If White Power Bill doesn't want to sit next to (or even speak directly to) a black person, what should the appropriate response of the airline be?

a) Tell WPB to either sit down in his assigned seat or get off the plane
b) Ask the black person to move so WPB's racist beliefs can be accommodated
c) Other (please specify)

Is it appropriate for employees of the airline to ask other passengers to make accommodations for WPB's racism? Would the black passenger be justified in complaining about the airline's conduct if they asked him or her to move, or would you say that's just "misplaced anger"?

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Posting this again because I've yet to see anyone address this point:

If White Power Bill doesn't want to sit next to (or even speak directly to) a black person, what should the appropriate response of the airline be?

a) Tell WPB to either sit down in his assigned seat or get off the plane
b) Ask the black person to move so WPB's racist beliefs can be accommodated
c) Other (please specify)

Is it appropriate for employees of the airline to ask other passengers to make accommodations for WPB's racism? Would the black passenger be justified in complaining about the airline's conduct if they asked him or her to move, or would you say that's just "misplaced anger"?

c) Other. Move the black person to first class and put WPB next to the crapper.

There is an internet story of that happening on an Air Canada or Canadian flight near South Africa years ago.....legend of course.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

Yes, he can believe whatever he wants. However, the same charter protects her and says that he should move to accommodate his own belief. He cannot impose that belief on her and assume she should move. His belief is his and he can take it down the aisle to an empty seat allowing him to maintain his integrity and abiding by Canadian Laws surrounding gender equality. There is absolutely no way he should be allowed to push his belief onto her and ask her to move.

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

Did you read the article? She says if he had asked she would have accommodated him. However, he simply ignored her and assumed she should move. The attendant asked her as this guy is too high on himself to lower himself to ask. I don't see why she should even be asked, why can't he lift his a$$ out of the seat and move? Even simpler way to deal with it.

Did you read the article that you posted? At no point did he try and impose his beliefs on her, what you suggested he do is exactly what he did. He was asking a few other people if they would trade seats with him. He never demanded that she be moved, he was trying to switch seats. Only once the flight attendant came over to find out what was happening did another passenger offer to switch with her. The flight attendant asked if she was willing to switch, she said no and that was the end of it, they found buddy another seat.

This whole thing is dumb and blown way out of proportion by this woman. I have been asked to trade seats before, I did not feel like I was owed some great apology or some human rights tribunal to be called.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Posting this again because I've yet to see anyone address this point:

If White Power Bill doesn't want to sit next to (or even speak directly to) a black person, what should the appropriate response of the airline be?

a) Tell WPB to either sit down in his assigned seat or get off the plane
b) Ask the black person to move so WPB's racist beliefs can be accommodated
c) Other (please specify)

Is it appropriate for employees of the airline to ask other passengers to make accommodations for WPB's racism? Would the black passenger be justified in complaining about the airline's conduct if they asked him or her to move, or would you say that's just "misplaced anger"?

Sorry, but I did address this. I addressed it in the very post you quoted. I think there's multiple scenarios that would work. I would be fine with a) but that might result in an unneeded delay to the hundreds of other passengers as they try and kick WPB off the plane.

If, for example, the airline attendant politely discussed the situation with the black person first, I wouldn't have an issue with the attendant. It's not the attendant who did anything wrong, he or she, is just trying to do their job. If someone were to offer to change seats, I would not take issue if the airline attendant politely asked if that was acceptable to the black person as long as the attendant was clear that it was up to the black person. If the black person did not want to move, I would hope that the airline attendant honoured that request. I would then hope the airline attendant discussed with WPB his options, which I imagine would be to find a seat quickly, take his own seat, or get off the plane. When resolved, I would hope that everyone judges WPB for the bigot he is and talk to their children about why he is wrong. At least they can do so while the plane is in the air and not delayed for the next hour trying to deal with WPB and his luggage.

What I would find unacceptable from the airline attendant would be to demand that the black person move or at all be anything but polite to him/her.

So yeah, put in any combinations of person and bigots you want. I don't think the flight attendant was in the wrong. His/her job was to get people to sit, sometimes that means dealing with rude (or worse) people. Do you think the attendant really should apologize because someone else offered up a seat? What should the attendant have done? Told the man behind her, who was just trying to be a Good Samaritan, to shut the #### up? Seeing if the lady would take up the offer is just common sense. If the lady was happy with it, everyone would have been happy, everyone would have been seated, and the plane could take off. The lady, justifiably, was not happy with it. That's fine as well.

The airline's a business and the attendant is an employee who's job is to get everyone seated so the plane can takeoff and get people to their destination on time. Kicking off unruly passengers is likely a last resort given the disturbance, so if there's an option to just get everyone seated, I don't blame the attendant and certainly not the airline because of someone else's religious beliefs.

[karl262]

Well I guess Porter Airlines is the best choice then for White Power Bill when he's deciding who to fly with. He can feel confident that his concerns will be addressed promptly and satisfactorily.