Fan Unions

[White Out 403]

I saw on the interwebs just a few mins ago a video of some Leafs fan going off on how expensive it was and how the players dont give a ####. One of the comments that struck a chord with me in the was a suggestion that fans should unionize. That tickled my memory a little about a youtube I saw for fan unions in europe for soccer, and how powerful they can be in shaping ownership behaviour. As a labour rights person, collective bargaining principles applied to fandom for the game we love seems to make a lot of sense.

Has this kind of approach been attempted here for the NHL? If not, man, I cant think of a better way to fight back against the predations of the greedy ownership who are bilking the Canadian consumer. Oiler fans are scum, but the 50 dollar nachos and drinks those wankers pay will be coming to the new Calgary arena too, no doubt.

And yes before anyone says it, one way to do so is to not spend money on the league or your team. But I don't think that's a good answer. I love my Jets and I know the people here love the Flames, and giving up on something like that because the current ownership are malignant sh*t sticks isn't how I want to approach the problem.

An example of something that I'd like to see emulated is https://www.fanseurope.org

[Nufy]

You would need to know the percentage of Season tix holders that are corporate vs private.

Corporate holders probably don't care.

[Blankcanvas]

Interesting idea - I like it!

[Bingo]

Yikes just don't go to the games.

Not hard to imagine a worse situation where a crazy group of fans unite and then have influence over an owner leaving the non unionized fan not sure who to fear most the owner, or the collective that is pushing the owner around.

We don't agree on what to do on this site ... imagine if people you disagree with the most suddenly had sway.

[Strange Brew]

Well I don’t think owners are malignant #### sticks so we don’t agree on your original premise.

I’m just not on board with folks who hate the owners or hate the league. Like some posters who claim they only watch pirated signals and won’t spend a dime on the team they love so much.

I honestly just don’t get it. Why invest so much of your time with something that you have just a dismal opinion of? Wouldn’t it be easier to find a different hobby?

I don’t see how having some organized group of fans control things is going to make things any better. Officials work still make calls against your team and other teams will still win draft lotteries.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well I don’t think owners are malignant #### sticks so we don’t agree on your original premise.

I’m just not on board with folks who hate the owners or hate the league. Like some posters who claim they only watch pirated signals and won’t spend a dime on the team they love so much.

I honestly just don’t get it. Why invest so much of your time with something that you have just a dismal opinion of? Wouldn’t it be easier to find a different hobby?

I don’t see how having some organized group of fans control things is going to make things any better. Officials work still make calls against your team and other teams will still win draft lotteries.

No owner is ever going to do exactly what a fan base wants.
No fan base is ever going to represent what every fan wants.

They own a business and with that they kind of deserve to manage it how they see fit.

Fans have a right to turn away and stop supporting it if they think the owner is making poor decisions.

And a question ... if a #### stick is malignant does that mean his #### stickness spreads to the rest of the organization, meaning he could sell the team and you'd still be screwed?

[Yeah_Baby]

Unionize your workplaces, that matters way more than doing pseudo organizing on where you spend your leisure time and entertainment dollars.

Sports is entertainment, if you're not having fun just go do something else.

[Jason14h]

Isn’t this the same as just not buying tickets ? I guess being more organized and a single voice could be advantageous

Sounds like something someone created to make money off rabid fans who think being in a fan “union” matters

[The Yen Man]

I don't know much about how this would work, but the last thing we need in the NHL fandom is something similar to soccer hooligans. How would these fan unions work? Would they threaten me if I decide to spend money when they are "striking"?

[Icantwhisper]

Fans are not nearly as smart as they think they are when it comes to running a team.
Every trade we make, there is a thread on how great it was for us until the games are played and no one saw the disappointing play coming. We used to have a thread on how great Tre was. Remember when we fleeced Florida in the Huberdeau trade?
Not including all the behind the scenes things that most fans are oblivious to.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Bingo

No owner is ever going to do exactly what a fan base wants.
No fan base is ever going to represent what every fan wants.

They own a business and with that they kind of deserve to manage it how they see fit.

Fans have a right to turn away and stop supporting it if they think the owner is making poor decisions.

I don't view these teams as property of the owners. The owners are simply stewards of the teams and that the team rightfully belongs to the community. The fans and the players on the ice make the NHL what it is, not rich #######s like Katz. Although I guess if you frame it in that way and it's just another business like a Shopper's Drug mart, then why have loyalty to anyone particular store or team.


The Flames have just bilked the city out of hundreds of millions of dollars for a new arena, it's this kind of mindset that allows fans to pay through the nose so already fabulously wealthy people can be even a little bit more fabulously wealthy.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I don't view these teams as property of the owners. The owners are simply stewards of the teams and that the team rightfully belongs to the community. The fans and the players on the ice make the NHL what it is, not rich #######s like Katz. Although I guess if you frame it in that way and it's just another business like a Shopper's Drug mart, then why have loyalty to anyone particular store or team.


The Flames have just bilked the city out of hundreds of millions of dollars for a new arena, it's this kind of mindset that allows fans to pay through the nose so already fabulously wealthy people can be even a little bit more fabulously wealthy.

Agree to disagree.

The Flames are from Calgary, and are part of Calgary's identity but they're owned by people with capital like every sports franchise.

It generally works because for the most part the fans and the owner want the same thing ... to win.

Even in Calgary right now I've never seen proof that Murray Edwards wants anything other than to win. Many just disagree on how that should be done.

We've seen owners that run teams into the ground in order to move a franchise or just because they're cheap ... that can happen. But it's more the plot for Slap Shot or Major League than something actually happening now. For the most part if you don't spend to the cap it's because your team isn't generating enough revenue, and that could be market or poor ownership creating a chicken/egg situation.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Agree to disagree.

The Flames are from Calgary, and are part of Calgary's identity but they're owned by people with capital like every sports franchise.

It generally works because for the most part the fans and the owner want the same thing ... to win.

Even in Calgary right now I've never seen proof that Murray Edwards wants anything other than to win. Many just disagree on how that should be done.

Okay let me try for a different angle and ask you three questions. Answer them however you want.
1) do you think fans have a meaningful line of communication with the team and I don't mean in regards to lines and who is on the team and trades etc
2) do you think ownership has set pricing for tickets and merchandise that is reasonable for the average Calgarian
3) do you think for the average Calgary family the NHL is a good value?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I don't view these teams as property of the owners. The owners are simply stewards of the teams and that the team rightfully belongs to the community. The fans and the players on the ice make the NHL what it is, not rich #######s like Katz. Although I guess if you frame it in that way and it's just another business like a Shopper's Drug mart, then why have loyalty to anyone particular store or team.


The Flames have just bilked the city out of hundreds of millions of dollars for a new arena, it's this kind of mindset that allows fans to pay through the nose so already fabulously wealthy people can be even a little bit more fabulously wealthy.

You may not view teams as property of owners but that's exactly what they are. There are community owned teams, but that's more an exception.

Your post reveals the issue though. You are coming to the table with a very strong view of the problems of ownership in pro sports. Which you are welcome to have. But its not one that I share, or everyone would share, so how do you create a union that is intended to "speak for the fans" when fans don't agree.

The closest thing to a fan union that exists are season ticket holders.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Okay let me try for a different angle and ask you three questions. Answer them however you want.
1) do you think fans have a meaningful line of communication with the team and I don't mean in regards to lines and who is on the team and trades etc
2) do you think ownership has set pricing for tickets and merchandise that is reasonable for the average Calgarian
3) do you think for the average Calgary family the NHL is a good value?

For 1) I don't think fans have ever had more say. Social media is a huge elephant in the room for fan opinion (and most of it is unhinged). Certainly beats the tar out of the call in show or letters to the editor world of the past.

I have season tickets so 2/3 work my personal situation. The rest isn't for me to decide.

If people don't go, ticket prices will eventually drop (so will the team). If it goes league wide you might even see an adjustment to average salary.

But we don't need a union. Just don't go.

I haven't been to any of the Mission Impossible movies in the theatre, but I certainly don't need to organize an anti-Tom Cruise union to make my feelings known.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I don't view these teams as property of the owners. The owners are simply stewards of the teams and that the team rightfully belongs to the community. The fans and the players on the ice make the NHL what it is, not rich #######s like Katz. Although I guess if you frame it in that way and it's just another business like a Shopper's Drug mart, then why have loyalty to anyone particular store or team.


The Flames have just bilked the city out of hundreds of millions of dollars for a new arena, it's this kind of mindset that allows fans to pay through the nose so already fabulously wealthy people can be even a little bit more fabulously wealthy.

Why shouldn't owners of teams, who have invested gazzillions in the team make a reasonable return?

Supply and demand suggests the consumers are not being bilked.

I get that the average Joe cannot easily attend hockey games, but should ticket prices be legislated lower so they can attend?

Should the price of mansions be artificially lowered to allow poor people the opportunity of living there? How about luxury cars?

Rich people will always have advantages over the middle class.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You may not view teams as property of owners but that's exactly what they are. There are community owned teams, but that's more an exception.

Your post reveals the issue though. You are coming to the table with a very strong view of the problems of ownership in pro sports. Which you are welcome to have. But its not one that I share, or everyone would share, so how do you create a union that is intended to "speak for the fans" when fans don't agree.

The closest thing to a fan union that exists are season ticket holders.

Feel free to answer the above questions I asked Bingo, then

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Bingo

For 1) I don't think fans have ever had more say. Social media is a huge elephant in the room for fan opinion (and most of it is unhinged). Certainly beats the tar out of the call in show or letters to the editor world of the past.

I have season tickets so 2/3 work my personal situation. The rest isn't for me to decide.

If people don't go, ticket prices will eventually drop (so will the team). If it goes league wide you might even see an adjustment to average salary.

But we don't need a union. Just don't go.

I haven't been to any of the Mission Impossible movies in the theatre, but I certainly don't need to organize an anti-Tom Cruise union to make my feelings known.

This is such a dumb comparison you're either purposefully not understanding or just being insufferable.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I don't view these teams as property of the owners. The owners are simply stewards of the teams and that the team rightfully belongs to the community. The fans and the players on the ice make the NHL what it is, not rich #######s like Katz. Although I guess if you frame it in that way and it's just another business like a Shopper's Drug mart, then why have loyalty to anyone particular store or team.


The Flames have just bilked the city out of hundreds of millions of dollars for a new arena, it's this kind of mindset that allows fans to pay through the nose so already fabulously wealthy people can be even a little bit more fabulously wealthy.

That's the trick, it is a business and that jersey is a corporate logo, we all create this make believe scenario where our team is morally, ethically, more skilled, has bad luck, and is being picked on more than other teams. The players are private contractors and have way less attachment to a franchise than the fans, it's their employer not some high and mighty organization.
Every player on (insert favourite team) is a great guy based on a bunch of media clips where they are all trained to say the same message. Statistically very unlikely.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

This is such a dumb comparison you're either purposefully not understanding or just being insufferable.

Ouch ...

Dumb or insufferable are my choices?

Nice way to converse with people!

Maybe you need to take a step back given a response like that. People just disagree with you. I've taken the time to answer everything you've asked, and you got personal when I made a comparison you didn't like.