This is pretty sensational, but it's hilarious actually.
Such stupid arguments FOR guns. Why don't you just admit that you like your guns, and that's good enough reason. You won't be able to fight the US government bub.
I remember watching that after the Aurora massacre, I must have be drunk and stoned not to remember just how much of an idiot Alex Jones really is.
Agree with the bolded, actually kind of shocked by the rest of this.
I don't know. I think if you want to live with 18th century tort you need to complete that paradigm. I would not be averse to horse hair shirts and pillories for those kids who fail gun class either.
Or just stop selling handguns. Pretty easy to do that. Take your 40 billion dollar gun fund and buy ammo instead. Store it all where the gold used to be in fort knox. Close down a few Wal Marts in Texas. Flush out the real nutters and start prying cold dead hands.
I don't know. I think if you want to live with 18th century tort you need to complete that paradigm. I would not be averse to horse hair shirts and pillories for those kids who fail gun class either.
Or just stop selling handguns. Pretty easy to do that. Take your 40 billion dollar gun fund and buy ammo instead. Store it all where the gold used to be in fort knox. Close down a few Wal Marts in Texas. Flush out the real nutters and start prying cold dead hands.
Its not that simple, you put that limit in and you have the gun lobby and believe it or not civil rights people screaming to the ceiling that you're abrogating the 2nd amendment and the supreme court will strike it down. Why do you think its so difficult to ban assault style weapons or close the gun show loop holes.
It would be interesting if you could ban the sale of ammunition and say to the people, look you can still have your guns but you can't have ammo.
But then the gangs and smugglers would move in and just make bank.
The challenge in charging for tougher gun control laws will always run into three major roadblocks
1) Hey dude its one of our fundamental rights
2) You have a gun lobby and groups like the NRA and the manufacturers with literally tons of money and legal talent that will make it a difficult fight
3) You could in a sense have a president that would enact gun control and threaten to use his veto, but he would never get the votes needed to make the veto stick.
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I won't quote your since it's too long, but you have to realize America isn't unique in it's laws or constitution or violent past or what have you.
Germany is somewhat of a bad example since the Allies MADE them change their laws, but they had institutionalized racism, murder and other immoral laws. Trust me, people BELIEVED in that ####. Millions willingly died to defend those laws, Laws written into the constitution. Once the allies changed the laws, the German public changed their views.
However, many countries have gone through peaceful scenarios of changing their culture and attitudes. Obviously Australia and their buy back program. What about capital punishment? Canada used to execute people (very legally mind you, meaning it was the states' "right" to execute criminals) then one day someone decided you know what, this is pretty barbaric. We need to change this. So they did.
It blows my mind that people in the USA can't look around to their neighbors around the world and realize that an armed society belongs in the past, and an armed society is not a safer society. So many times people are killed with their own guns.
And by the way, the federal government by all accounts has already overstepped their bounds and become tyrannical. How come you haven't marched onto the capitol yet with your buddies and defended your rights? Isn't that precisely what the 2nd amd is for? Are you too afraid of the US military? I would be. Maybe your old man and his buddies should have done it while they still had the chance of overthrowing the government before the feds became so huge and the military so powerful.
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No, you wont quote my post because you can't refute any of it.
Quote:
but you have to realize America isn't unique in it's laws or constitution or violent past or what have you.
Germany is somewhat of a bad example since the Allies MADE them change their laws, but they had institutionalized racism, murder and other immoral laws. Trust me, people BELIEVED in that ####. Millions willingly died to defend those laws, Laws written into the constitution. Once the allies changed the laws, the German public changed their views.
And now we have been Goodwined. Interesting to note that the country you chose to bring up, at that time in history, had a absolute firearms ban for civilians. You would actually bring up and compare a fascist country such as WW2 era nazi Germany, who was kicking sand in the worlds collective face, was involved in genocide, practically invented the practice of police state, and compare it to a free country such as modern USA. You're right, WW2 era Germany IS a bad example.
Quote:
However, many countries have gone through peaceful scenarios of changing their culture and attitudes. Obviously Australia and their buy back program.
Australia does not have a constitutionally protected right to own firearms. Another bad example.
Quote:
What about capital punishment?
What about it?
Quote:
Canada used to execute people (very legally mind you, meaning it was the states' "right" to execute criminals) then one day someone decided you know what, this is pretty barbaric. We need to change this. So they did.
You are associating firearm ownership with capital punishment, because in your mind....
Quote:
this is pretty barbaric
You view them both as barbaric. Which speaks more to your irrational fear of inanimate objects than anything to do with the structure of society, which in the US was built from their own self determination. Not by a dictator. (lol @ nazi Germany)
Quote:
It blows my mind that people in the USA can't look around to their neighbors around the world and realize that an armed society belongs in the past, and an armed society is not a safer society. So many times people are killed with their own guns.
Did you know your chances of drowning increase if you have a pool in your backyard? Mind blowing stuff, right? The key is education, something you refuse because in the end, it doesn't take away the rights of over 315 million Americans. Which is what you want.
Quote:
And by the way, the federal government by all accounts has already overstepped their bounds and become tyrannical. How come you haven't marched onto the capitol yet with your buddies and defended your rights? Isn't that precisely what the 2nd amd is for? Are you too afraid of the US military? I would be. Maybe your old man and his buddies should have done it while they still had the chance of overthrowing the government before the feds became so huge and the military so powerful.
Now THIS is funny!
A: I'm not American.
B: The NRA influence does not cross their borders as I cannot support them in any way shape or form. Their rhetoric is lost on me.
C: Tell Americans a blanket Federal law has been passed banning all handguns and semi auto loading firearms and see exactly how hard the crap hits the propeller.
Maybe your old man and his buddies should have convinced 17th century Americans to "just give up" and allow for their future to be determined by royalty halfway across the planet? Maybe your buddies should have pushed harder for this "common sense" reform that you want before we have the perceived problem we have today? Why is the onus on the "pro gun" side to make this right, when they are operating within the confines of the law? Again, gun homicide has been steadily dropping for 30 years. 150 million new firearms have been purchased by private citizens in the last 20 years. People like you claim that "more guns equal more crime" yet these stats fly in the face of your unsubstantiated claims and actual stats don't seem to hinder you or your ideological push to screw people over when it comes to their rights.
I assume you live in Southern California? Tell you what. Go and put a big sign in front of your house or in your front window that says..
"This is a gun free home"
Do it. Gun free zones are proven safe right? California has the strictest regulations regarding firearms ownership, right up to a registry for all handguns and a ban on "scary" black guns. So you're good to go right? Do it. Prove to yourself and everyone else that a gun free zone is just an awesome place to be.
Still curious how you can, in your words... "I get my hands on any number of high capacity weapons" when you are not a US citizen. Without of course, breaking the law.
So go ahead and prove how awesome gun free zones work and advertise your place of residence as such.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
Buyback is just not feasible. Ammunition control might be more effective?
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Buyback is just not feasible. Ammunition control might be more effective?
The last lead smelting plant closed in the US a couple years ago, and has created a shortage of certain ammo, mostly .22 rimfire. The plant wasn't closed to limit ammo, but it was a side effect. Ask anyone who owns a .22 rimfire and they will tell the price has exploded and it's very hard to find.
Another ammo shortage was caused in the last couple years when both the US military and homeland security purchased billions of rounds of ammunition. It's interesting to note that hollow point ammo made up a sizable amount of their purchase. Hollow point ammunition was banned during the Hague convention and no NATO state uses it. At the same time the military is destroying ammo.
"at the height of the Iraq War the Army was expending less than 6 million rounds a month. Therefore 1.6 billion rounds would be enough to sustain a hot war for 20+ years. In America."
Ammo is getting harder to find. Not necessarily due to new laws aimed at guns or ammo, but it is becoming harder to find than in recent years and becoming more costly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
The last lead smelting plant closed in the US a couple years ago, and has created a shortage of certain ammo, mostly .22 rimfire. The plant wasn't closed to limit ammo, but it was a side effect. Ask anyone who owns a .22 rimfire and they will tell the price has exploded and it's very hard to find
That had nothing to do with ammo shortages. Lead ammo is on its way out anyway.
Quote:
Another ammo shortage was caused in the last couple years when both the US military and homeland security purchased billions of rounds of ammunition. It's interesting to note that hollow point ammo made up a sizable amount of their purchase. Hollow point ammunition was banned during the Hague convention and no NATO state uses it. At the same time the military is destroying ammo
.
That's fishy too. Lots of sources say the large purchases didn't effect supply at all. I think it's just pure demand driving the price.
That had nothing to do with ammo shortages. Lead ammo is on its way out anyway.
.
That's fishy too. Lots of sources say the large purchases didn't effect supply at all. I think it's just pure demand driving the price.
I said it has created a shortage mostly seen in .22 rimfire. The vast majority of which is still loaded with leaded projectiles.
I think it depends on what part of the country you live in as well. Some people claim to not see a shortage and others say it hasn't been on the shelves in months. That plant was the last major supplier for .22.
Demand and inflation are the main causes to higher prices, loading components have raised in price as well, and outside of powder components are readily available.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
My mistake, it has just been over 20 years. The rates we see now are at early 1960 levels. They attribute the drop due to the aging baby boomer population.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
I said it has created a shortage mostly seen in .22 rimfire. The vast majority of which is still loaded with leaded projectiles.
I think it depends on what part of the country you live in as well. Some people claim to not see a shortage and others say it hasn't been on the shelves in months. That plant was the last major supplier for .22.
You're still wrong. Did you read your own link? There are others but here's yours...
97% of ammo lead is recycled, not smelted. Closing the lead plant didn't effect ammo distribution at all. Nor did the massive fed stock up a few years ago.
No, you wont quote my post because you can't refute any of it.
And now we have been Goodwined. Interesting to note that the country you chose to bring up, at that time in history, had a absolute firearms ban for civilians. You would actually bring up and compare a fascist country such as WW2 era nazi Germany, who was kicking sand in the worlds collective face, was involved in genocide, practically invented the practice of police state, and compare it to a free country such as modern USA. You're right, WW2 era Germany IS a bad example.
Australia does not have a constitutionally protected right to own firearms. Another bad example.
What about it?
You are associating firearm ownership with capital punishment, because in your mind....
You view them both as barbaric. Which speaks more to your irrational fear of inanimate objects than anything to do with the structure of society, which in the US was built from their own self determination. Not by a dictator. (lol @ nazi Germany)
Did you know your chances of drowning increase if you have a pool in your backyard? Mind blowing stuff, right? The key is education, something you refuse because in the end, it doesn't take away the rights of over 315 million Americans. Which is what you want.
Now THIS is funny!
A: I'm not American.
B: The NRA influence does not cross their borders as I cannot support them in any way shape or form. Their rhetoric is lost on me.
C: Tell Americans a blanket Federal law has been passed banning all handguns and semi auto loading firearms and see exactly how hard the crap hits the propeller.
Maybe your old man and his buddies should have convinced 17th century Americans to "just give up" and allow for their future to be determined by royalty halfway across the planet? Maybe your buddies should have pushed harder for this "common sense" reform that you want before we have the perceived problem we have today? Why is the onus on the "pro gun" side to make this right, when they are operating within the confines of the law? Again, gun homicide has been steadily dropping for 30 years. 150 million new firearms have been purchased by private citizens in the last 20 years. People like you claim that "more guns equal more crime" yet these stats fly in the face of your unsubstantiated claims and actual stats don't seem to hinder you or your ideological push to screw people over when it comes to their rights.
I assume you live in Southern California? Tell you what. Go and put a big sign in front of your house or in your front window that says..
"This is a gun free home"
Do it. Gun free zones are proven safe right? California has the strictest regulations regarding firearms ownership, right up to a registry for all handguns and a ban on "scary" black guns. So you're good to go right? Do it. Prove to yourself and everyone else that a gun free zone is just an awesome place to be.
Still curious how you can, in your words... "I get my hands on any number of high capacity weapons" when you are not a US citizen. Without of course, breaking the law.
So go ahead and prove how awesome gun free zones work and advertise your place of residence as such.
Well I'll quote this one, but quoting a post that had past quotes in it looks silly, but whatever. I CAN refute any and all gun arguments you say. It's literally just common sense. Common sense tells you look at Canada, Australia, Britain or any number of western nations similar in HDI , GDP per capita and culture to America. Look at their gun laws. Look at the gun violence rates. What more is there to discuss?
I should preface the rest of this post saying that I am a born and raised Calgarian, I grew up around hunting, and yes I live in So Cal now. I like guns. I know a lot about guns. I am by most accounts a 'conservative' person.
I don't find guns scary and I also believe there are millions of gun owners who will never commit a crime with their gun, nor shoot themselves with it, or have an accident in their home. However, the fact of the matter is that America has a ton of gun violence. You can be either of the opinion this needs to change, or it's just a fact of life that can't be changed.
I absolutely believe the right of 315 million Americans needs to be taken away. The law was written hundreds of years ago in a completely different context. The laws need to be updated, pure and simple. There will be backlash, yes, but not as much as you think. The vast majority of Americans would want a safer society, and the status quo is not it.
By the way, the sign in my front window would probably have no effect. I live in one of the safest neighborhoods in the entire nation. I know you are implying that pockets of gun free zones aren't safe, and you are correct. If I lived in Compton and put up a sign like that, yes I would get robbed because many folks there have guns. The fact is, if the VAST MAJORITY of the WHOLE NATION don't have guns, it makes it a safer place. Any law that gets enacted, which boils down the the 2nd amd, needs to be nation-wide to be effective.
Curious about how I can get firearms? Even been to some backwater town in the desert with a gun show? Nevermind all that legal stuff if you pay cash.
Replace 'gun' and 'shot to death' with 'knife' and 'stabbed to death' and tell me how you would stop that?
I am not pro gun, but I am not sure how much more you can do to stop bad guys from doing bad things. The guns that are out there now, they are not going anywhere. It would require the GDP of Canada to buy all the illicit guns back.
I like the ammo tax idea. Hard core dudes could make their own, it might be bad news to ranges and skeet shooters. :dunno:
Replace 'gun' and 'shot to death' with 'knife' and 'stabbed to death' and tell me how you would stop that?
I am not pro gun, but I am not sure how much more you can do to stop bad guys from doing bad things. The guns that are out there now, they are not going anywhere. It would require the GDP of Canada to buy all the illicit guns back.
I like the ammo tax idea. Hard core dudes could make their own, it might be bad news to ranges and skeet shooters. :dunno:
I agree with your other points but damn, do sentences like this drive me absolutely insane. Do we really need to go into the physics of someones ability to potentially avoid being stabbed and someones ability to potentially avoid being shot? They're not even in the same ball park.
Replace "knife" with golf club and "stabbed to death" with "bludgeoned to death" and explain to me how you'll stop that. In fact, I would argue that there are exponentially more household items that are better to kill someone with than a knife. It has no relevance to a gun that can fire projectiles at 1000's of ft/second, possibly in rapid succession.
Using these as arguments against anti-gun people just makes you look like you can't use logic.
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