Canadian Military News

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Lchoy

Not sure if dumb question, but if Canada gets new planes, would we also have to get all new armaments for it? When I was younger I played a lot of flight sims so I'm familiar with US weaponry (AMRAAM, sidewinders,Mk series bombs....) but I was never sure what the Canadian airforce uses.
With new armaments, that means a new logistic chain, purchasing, and servicing, all that adds to a cost to a temp superhornet upgrade or new F-35s

We pretty much use US ordinance anyways so that makes little difference. If they buy the F-35 the logistics train won't change, we'll probably be ordering different weapons though.

[CaptainCrunch]

Looks like the LAV deal with the Saudi's is going to come back and haunt this government

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...service=mobile

Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland's department says she is "deeply concerned" that Saudi Arabia's rulers appear to be deploying Canadian-made armoured vehicles in an escalating conflict with Saudi citizens.
Ms. Freeland has asked officials to investigate the matter. Global Affairs Canada released a statement shortly after The Globe and Mail published a story Friday on the apparent use of Canadian-made combat vehicles in Saudi Arabia's violence-plagued Eastern Province.

Guess we should have asked for a pinky swear on this one.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Looks like the LAV deal with the Saudi's is going to come back and haunt this government

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...service=mobile



Guess we should have asked for a pinky swear on this one.

Who could have ever seen this coming?

I don't know if I want to live in a world where the Saudi's can't be relied on for their humanitarianism.

[CaptainCrunch]

The bottom line question is why we keep bringing in a million barrells of oil a day to the west coast from that Kingdom.

Oh because a pipeline is far more evil then a monstrous regime that exports terrorism while at the same time brutalizing their own people.

If Canada wants a sanction that works, stop buying oil from them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Canadian intern fighter saga now comes with a keystone cops sound track.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supe...ales-1.4297528

US State department approves the sale of 18 Super Hornets to Canada in either the single seat or duel seat varient for $6.3 Billion dollars or $350 million per copy.

so basically we're buying a heading towards end of life aircraft for $350,000,00 (USD) per plane and the Liberals were complaining about a superior F-35 permanent purchase at about 1/3 the price.

And they think they're going to be turning around and reselling these planes after a decade or so for any kind of value.

Just incredibly stupid.

And then Trudeau basically threatens Boeing by stating they won't buy from them if they continue to pursue their actions against Bombardier.

The Canadian fighter deal represents a puny tiny percentage of the overall sales of Boeing, whereas if Boeing wins their challenge of Bombardier business practices and product dumping they pretty much put a stake through a competitors chest.

This whole thing is incredibly stupid. Instead of spending $6.3 billion dollars for 18 freaking Super Hornets, how about, put in a replacement fleet order, get 18 as a permanent replacement in the same time span as the Intern Boeing offer with the rest coming in the next 3 to 5 years..

Lockheed Martin in a letter to our defense Minister in June stated that they could deliver F-35's in the same time frame as Boeing at a cost of $80 to $85 million US per plane.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/nation...35-acquisition

Lockheed Martin has seen opportunity in the rift and has told the Liberals it can deliver F-35s on a similar schedule that was being considered for the Boeing planes. Lockheed Martin president Marillyn Hewson said in the June 1 letter to Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan and then procurement minister Judy Foote, that Canada could acquire the F-35 at a cost of between $80 million U.S. and $85 million U.S. per aircraft.

Globe and Mail with a "What are they doing" piece

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opi...beandmail.com&

[photon]

$350 million per unit?!?! I thought the Super Hornet interim step was supposed to be cheaper, lol.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by photon

$350 million per unit?!?! I thought the Super Hornet interim step was supposed to be cheaper, lol.

Unless my math is wrong

But

$6,300,000,000/18 = $350,000,000

Yup checks out, and remember that's US dollars.

So basically if we go through with this 1 Superhornets = about 4 F-35's (at $85 million)

[photon]

Can you weigh in on this sentence CC?

Sajjan has insisted the jets are necessary because there is a "capability gap" in which the air force cannot meet both its Norad and NATO commitments simultaneously.

That implies that the Super Hornet is capable of something the F-35 wouldn't be?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by photon

Can you weigh in on this sentence CC?



That implies that the Super Hornet is capable of something the F-35 wouldn't be?

By the capability gap he's saying that the current CF-18's are at a point where we can't carry out all the possible missions that we might need fighters for including home defense/nato/norad. They're also stating that the capability gap is to do with sensors/bomb load capability etc.

The Super Hornet carries far more in terms of ordinance then something like the F-35. But to just use that to justify a capability gap is foolish because a air force composed of something like the F-35 just functions differently then an air force made up of something like Super Hornets.

The Globe and Mail had a good article questioning the capability gap.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opi...beandmail.com&

BTW earlier this summer I believe it was Lt Gen Hood who heads up our airforce says there's no capability gap, and the Air Force could carry out our mission until 2025 which is enough time to do the Air Force permanent jet replacement.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by photon

That implies that the Super Hornet is capable of something the F-35 wouldn't be?

Yeah it can fold it's wing tips for storage

At first I thought maybe it was a combat range thing for the canadian north but nope the F-35 has almost twice the range, This canadian government is a complete joke, one idiot after another!

[Fuzz]

It could also be smart negotiating... Lockheed has offered up a better deal now. I mean, it's not likely it was planned this way, but who knows.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It could also be smart negotiating... Lockheed has offered up a better deal now. I mean, it's not likely it was planned this way, but who knows.

I have my doubts that this was any kind of plan.

[Fuzz]

But if it works.. think of the credit they will take!

[CaptainCrunch]

National Post steps in with a scathing editorial about the F-35, the Super Hornet and Bombardier

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-v...#comments-area

[CaptainCrunch]

In another unrelated military story.

Barry Westholm was asked by the government to take a job as an advocate for wounded soldiers.

He wrote a letter to our Prime Minister, Minister of defense and the head of the Military to complain about the treatment of wounded soldiers.

And had the job offer pulled off the table

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-v...#comments-area

Westholm now questions whether the military is serious about fixing the system. “They don’t seem to want to hear about where the problems are and how they can be fixed,” he said in an interview. “The focus is more on optics, making sure no one in the leadership is embarrassed.”

[CaptainCrunch]

More news on the F-35 as Lockheed Martin prices their 10th lot of the fighter at $85 million dollars, and looks to replace the F-16 with the F-35.

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/p...n-fighter-jets

Here's a more indepth article about the F-35 purchase including a list of the Canadian Industries working on the F-35

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...hornets-05739/

This article is an excellent primer to the debate over Canada's fighter jet future.

It covers the argument of Stealth versus the reduced radar cross section. Looks at the competitive air craft and debates Caanda's likely choices

[dammage79]

I do wonder now with Canada and the UK both going up against Boeing if Eurofighter comes into the fray a little more.

Still would want the Saab and you can but Bunches of them today and have them delivered next week.

I'm softening on the F-35 a bit, but it still seems shady dealing with Lockheed.

I hate the idea that F-18s and any iteration of them are even in any conversation for purchase.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I do wonder now with Canada and the UK both going up against Boeing if Eurofighter comes into the fray a little more.

Still would want the Saab and you can but Bunches of them today and have them delivered next week.

I'm softening on the F-35 a bit, but it still seems shady dealing with Lockheed.

I hate the idea that F-18s and any iteration of them are even in any conversation for purchase.

The trouble with the JAS-39E (NG) which is the advanced model that we would want is that they wouldn't be available until after the Canadian deadline for purchasing new jets. We could buy the less capable C or D's but that doesn't make sense.

The bulgarians were originally looking at the JAS-39 as their Mig 29 replacement, but that program has been cancelled.

The F-35 can carry a much heavier payload then the JAS-39, is just way ahead of it in terms of stealth, and in terms of interoperability and battlefield awareness, and future upgradability


And with Lockheed Martin reducing the price for Canada and on its lot 10 order the pricing of a much less capable plane isn't as attractive for a airforce with a 35 year flight mandate.

From what I also have read, if the Super hornet is in on the Canadian competition, Saab is out, they don't think they can beat the Super Hornet in a straight competition. However that could change with the $350 million dollar per copy price tag of the super hornet.

Pricing wise, remember that the JAS-39C is at $60 million USD, the E advanced variant would probably be a lot more, especially with a limited production run.

The F-35 at $85 million pretty much is a great deal.

[karl262]

Just to be clear, does the $350m per super hornet include any operating costs down the road or is that the fly away price?

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by karl262

Just to be clear, does the $350m per super hornet include any operating costs down the road or is that the fly away price?

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Basically its the planes and some spare partage, however that price tag was the one approved by the US State Department for the Sale of the aircraft. So I doubt it has anything to do with usage, ordinance or anything like that.