Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 07-25-2017, 11:57 AM   #1
Badabing
Backup Goalie
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Depths of the C of Red
Exp:
Default Petronas - Pacific Northwest LNG project officially scrapped

Not sure if this fit better in one of the political threads, but Petronas' $12B project has officially been scrapped:

Quote:
"We are disappointed that the extremely challenging environment brought about by the prolonged depressed prices and shifts in the energy industry have led us to this decision," Anuar Taib, Chairman of the Pacific Northwest LNG Board, said in a statement.
http://www.bnn.ca/pacific-northwest-...ronas-1.813258
__________________
"In the Soviet army it takes more courage to retreat than advance."
Badabing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 12:03 PM   #2
Ducay
Franchise Player
 
Ducay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Exp:
Default

We were far too many years behind our competition in this game, so not surprising - Federal and provincial politics really didn't help the situation.

Silly too because now you're seeing less LNG in Asia and that was going to be replacing dirty coal. Environmentalists think this is a win, but its a pretty big loss.
Ducay is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to Ducay For This Useful Post:
Old 07-25-2017, 12:15 PM   #3
Igniter
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Igniter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducay View Post
We were far too many years behind our competition in this game, so not surprising - Federal and provincial politics really didn't help the situation.

Silly too because now you're seeing less LNG in Asia and that was going to be replacing dirty coal. Environmentalists think this is a win, but its a pretty big loss.
Completely agree. I don't know why Canada panders to the environmentalist movement so significantly. We've missed the trend completely. If it's not us, it's someone else who might not be extracting it as responsibly...

American LNG exports

It only shows up to 2016 - but the trend is significant.

American Natural Gas Production

That last run-up wasn't under trump, it was under Obama. It's clear that the United States was taking a balanced approach to the renewable shift - now its a free for all...

We should have been able to be balanced too
__________________
Keep the Flame Alive
Igniter is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Igniter For This Useful Post:
Old 07-25-2017, 12:38 PM   #4
Lubicon
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badabing View Post
Not sure if this fit better in one of the political threads, but Petronas' $12B project has officially been scrapped:



http://www.bnn.ca/pacific-northwest-...ronas-1.813258
Might end up spilling over into the layoffs thread....

Wonder what this means for Progress Energy? Without the project Petronas arguably no longer needs (may want?) to own them.
Lubicon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 12:43 PM   #5
Igniter
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Igniter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubicon View Post
Might end up spilling over into the layoffs thread....

Wonder what this means for Progress Energy? Without the project Petronas arguably no longer needs (may want?) to own them.
It does say that they are planning to continue to developing their Montney... I mean they have a 1000+ wells in it already I believe... I guess that's why they were also looking for easterly off take solution recently.

They're at the end of the pipe, so they're at the mercy of the differential, but still it's probably bad news for some of the more pure gas players like Peyto. I think we'll start seeing some more downward pressure on natural gas prices.
__________________
Keep the Flame Alive
Igniter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 12:52 PM   #6
Frequitude
Franchise Player
 
Frequitude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 555 Saddledome Rise SE
Exp:
Default

Ok, I can somewhat see BC's case against Alberta transporting its crude through their province and off their coastline for mostly our profit, even if I think they got played by US oil interests funding the whole campaign.

However the fact that BC couldn't get an LNG plant built to monetize their own trillions of cubic feet of gas, a product which simply evaporates in the case of a tanker "spill", goes to show just how hard they and we all got played by the US.
Frequitude is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 15 Users Say Thank You to Frequitude For This Useful Post:
Old 07-25-2017, 03:01 PM   #7
SebC
tromboner
 
SebC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: where the lattes are
Exp:
Default

Thanks NDP!
SebC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 09:39 PM   #8
Violator
On Hiatus
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Exp:
Default

They are building pipelines in the states like there so no tomorrow for everything they are building would be nice if that same mentality would have worked here
Violator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 09:43 PM   #9
Zulu29
Franchise Player
 
Zulu29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kelowna
Exp:
Default

Well that just really sucks....
Zulu29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 10:23 AM   #10
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Not sure we can really lay this at the feet of the government. Clark was a pretty huge proponent of the plan. Sounds like the company shut it down because of the deflated price of oil.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 10:25 AM   #11
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Given that it was an LNG plant that seems unlikely.

Realistically there were a number of factors, you're right though that the BC government was not the biggest issue. Still, LNG development in this country has to be considered among the biggest missed opportunities of the past two decades.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 10:27 AM   #12
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
Given that it was an LNG plant that seems unlikely.
That was the statement they gave to the media according to the radio station I was listening to on the drive to work.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 10:30 AM   #13
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

I was just being snarky. Obviously LNG prices are linked to oil prices.

It's been pretty annoying to read ignorant comments from people who think this sort of development is good for the environment. Yeah thanks guys, something like 80% of global LNG demand is in Asia. Definitely a huge win for the environmental lobby for China to stick with coal. Good call there.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 10:31 AM   #14
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
I was just being snarky. Obviously LNG prices are linked to oil prices.
Fair. I decided to watch baseball until 12:30 AM last night so my mind isn't super sharp today.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 11:07 AM   #15
Frequitude
Franchise Player
 
Frequitude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 555 Saddledome Rise SE
Exp:
Default

This decision today is entirely about depressed LNG prices in Asia compared to the ~$10+ differential with NA gas prices which existed years ago. Basically, the arb is gone. The reason that diff has closed is because the US has built a bunch of LNG infrastructure to increase supply and bring the price down. Probably doesn't help that Japan, the world's largest consumer of LNG, is starting to turn nuclear plants back on.

Basically, BC screwed themselves by doddling along trying to appease everyone while the US ate their lunch. And the people they were trying to appease could only afford their loud platform because they were funded by those exact US interests.

You got played, BC. And it'll cost you billions. Stop fighting over which provincial party to blame and look in the mirror. *slow clap*
Frequitude is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Frequitude For This Useful Post:
Old 07-26-2017, 11:27 AM   #16
Leeman4Gilmour
First Line Centre
 
Leeman4Gilmour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Normally, my desk
Exp:
Default

It's really too bad. Timing could have been really good for Petronas. Right now, a bunch of of new projects are just coming on stream so we'll have an LNG surplus for a while. However, by 2025 the pendulum could swing.

You can find other forecasts which say the same as this (page 13);

Presentation
Leeman4Gilmour is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Leeman4Gilmour For This Useful Post:
Old 07-26-2017, 11:32 AM   #17
DiracSpike
First Line Centre
 
DiracSpike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: BELTLINE
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violator View Post
They are building pipelines in the states like there so no tomorrow for everything they are building would be nice if that same mentality would have worked here
It won't though. The US and Australia snapped all the LNG market share that could've been ours because culturally, they're a lot more cut throat and will push through projects that are good for the country.

Meanwhile, in Boy Scout Nation, there were half a dozen years of consultations and redundant red tape that almost single handedly killed a project that should've been a slam dunk. And now we as citizens are all poorer for it.
DiracSpike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 11:43 AM   #18
Red Slinger
First Line Centre
 
Red Slinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Exp:
Default

As someone who did a little work on the PNW proposal this is very disappointing. While it's true the gas prices played a big part in this, the other important factors in this decision were the environmental issues around the fish habitat and the very loud, confrontational and sometimes violent local First Nations protests.

Hopefully some collective heads get pulled out of some collective asses and LNG Canada will go forward.
Red Slinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 12:19 PM   #19
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

One would think that there is expected demand for LNG down the road with so many coal plants coming offline.

Even in Manitoba/Ontario there will be a bigger push for more natural gas expansion as hydro rates are slowly rising. In Ontario they would love to have natural gas put in.

I know in Manitoba natural gas is seriously being considered by a lot of big players. The only thing holding them back is the fact that propane prices are decent right now.

Coal is out of the question & hydro is too expensive. Natural gas is the next best option.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2017, 12:23 PM   #20
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Brad Wall is such a disingenuous piece of garbage.

https://www.facebook.com/PremierBradWall/
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rubecube For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:21 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021