Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 07-23-2017, 02:22 PM   #41
GettinIggyWithIt
Scoring Winger
 
GettinIggyWithIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

It would be interesting to redo this list without using the 1st and 2nd round and omitting 2015-2017 (because it's still early) just because I think later round success is even more surprising.

There's been a few gems in rounds 4 - 6 in the past 10 years. Brodie, Spurgeon, Pesce, Nyquist, Arvidsson and Slavin all deserve hm's. Palat should definitely be there I think. Freddie Andersson was initially a 7th round pick, re-drafted by Anaheim in the 3rd round too I believe..?
GettinIggyWithIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 02:23 PM   #42
The Cobra
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Sure, in isolation. But we've got Monahan in the middle, Johnny makes an excellent complimentary piece.

He's like Kessel.

He's not going to carry your team, hes the guy thats going to kick your ass while you're too busy watching everyone else.
You answered your own question.

He's an excellent complimentary piece.

But Johnny is not gonna drive the bus.

Yes he's like Kessel, who is an excellent player because of that Crosby kid.
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 02:26 PM   #43
The Cobra
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Am I the only one that thinks that Johnny's gonna blow Scheifle out of the water next season?

Its easy to rack up meaningless points on a non-playoff team, but hes also a 7th overall pick and a year older than Johnny.
I"m not sure what draft pick he was in comparing who's better?

Even if Johnny has a few more points than him next season, Scheifle's overall game will always play better than Johnny's.

It's really no contest, and that's saying something as Johnny is excellent.

Now I will grant you that Johnny's been a bigger surprise than Scheifle, but is not a better player.
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 02:45 PM   #44
Vulcan
Franchise Player
 
Vulcan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada View Post
I love the part about the 2007 draft where the Oilers had three 1st round picks and five picks made before Dallas took Jamie Benn. I get that teams may have passed on Gaudreau because of his size but Benn was good immediately after being drafted for the Stars so what did scouts miss on him? How do scouts universally miss a guy that went from the 5th round to scoring 22 goals the next season in the NHL and never looking back?
I found this.

Quote:
Benn was just 5-foot-3 when he was in Grade 10 before shooting up to a slight 6-foot-2 over the next couple of years. Some amateur scouts wondered if he was a slow skater, or simply not trying hard enough.
Article also mentions other players that were steals such as Brodie.

http://nationalpost.com/sports/hocke...0-3fccaed39c7f
Vulcan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 03:25 PM   #45
RM14
First Line Centre
 
RM14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

How long until CP is accused of slanting the votes on that site too? Johnny crushing the poll. Lol
RM14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 03:43 PM   #46
calgaryblood
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Hmmmmmmm
Exp:
Default

I'm glad we took a Flyer on Johnny.
calgaryblood is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to calgaryblood For This Useful Post:
Old 07-23-2017, 03:47 PM   #47
SebC
tromboner
 
SebC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: where the lattes are
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
Johnny is not gonna drive the bus.
This is nonsense. Gaudreau is a solid offensive catalyst and has the ability to create offense even in tight games. Opponents cannot count on being able to choke us out of games precisely because they can play great and still not be able to stop Gaudreau from making plays. He's a tremendous asset.
SebC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 03:56 PM   #48
The Cobra
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SebC View Post
This is nonsense. Gaudreau is a solid offensive catalyst and has the ability to create offense even in tight games. Opponents cannot count on being able to choke us out of games precisely because they can play great and still not be able to stop Gaudreau from making plays. He's a tremendous asset.


What I mean by this is that Johnny will not be considered the most important player on his team, the #1 centre likely will be. That's what teams want to be able to compete for the SC.

There is a reason why centres are so highly valued. They need them to shut down the opposition as well as scoring. Johnny's value is offensive scoring, he's not playing any shut down role.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The Cobra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 04:05 PM   #49
Flames Draft Watcher
In the Sin Bin
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz View Post
The article said that Gaudreau is a perennial 60-70 point player, and that he would likely be a top 10 pick in a 2011 re-draft.

I don't know, I think that's selling him short.
Mark Scheifele and Kucherov are the only players that would arguably be drafted ahead of him.
I think some of you are ignoring the dmen. I think Hamilton goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft. Top 2 dmen are more valuable overall than 1st line undersized wingers. Arguably Larsson maybe goes ahead of him as well, depends on the organizational philosophy.
Flames Draft Watcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 04:16 PM   #50
Locke
Franchise Player
 
Locke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood View Post
I'm glad we took a Flyer on Johnny.
Boooooo! If I had batteries I'd throw them at you.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!

This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.

If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Locke is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
Old 07-23-2017, 04:29 PM   #51
Roof-Daddy
Franchise Player
 
Roof-Daddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
I think some of you are ignoring the dmen. I think Hamilton goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft. Top 2 dmen are more valuable overall than 1st line undersized wingers. Arguably Larsson maybe goes ahead of him as well, depends on the organizational philosophy.
This is a good point. Personally I would have Dougie no lower than 4th in a re draft.
Roof-Daddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 04:40 PM   #52
Snuffleupagus
Franchise Player
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
Scheifele had as many points in 2015-2016 as Johnny had last year (61), so this was not his first decent year.

Scheifele is a big centre who can score, and any team would take him easily over the smaller winger.

Johnny is a very talented player, but he is what he is, and his size will always limit him somewhat.

This is not meant as a slight to Johnny, but Scheifele would be likely be in discussion of the top 10 forwards teams would take if they were starting a franchise tomorrow.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I disagree and Johnny put the "small" thing to bed his first year. If anything his size helps him and if they finally get rid of the hand slashings he'll be even more dangerous

So far:
JG - 0.88 PPG
MS- 0.74 PPG

Gaudreau has the ability to get 18,000 fans to rise from their seats many times a game like a Patrick Kane, Scheifele is good but he's a tier away in the talent level
Snuffleupagus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 04:59 PM   #53
Flames Draft Watcher
In the Sin Bin
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
I disagree and Johnny put the "small" thing to bed his first year. If anything his size helps him and if they finally get rid of the hand slashings he'll be even more dangerous

So far:
JG - 0.88 PPG
MS- 0.74 PPG

Gaudreau has the ability to get 18,000 fans to rise from their seats many times a game like a Patrick Kane, Scheifele is good but he's a tier away in the talent level
Centre is just the more valuable position by far. And securing a big, 1st line centre is huge for building a team. I think teams would take Scheiffele over Gaudreau to build around if they are starting from scratch 10 times out of 10. You need a big #1 centre to compete in this league and they are extremely hard to find. Wing is the easiest position to acquire.

Scheiffele goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft no question IMO.

Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 07-23-2017 at 05:03 PM.
Flames Draft Watcher is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Flames Draft Watcher For This Useful Post:
Old 07-23-2017, 05:29 PM   #54
Snuffleupagus
Franchise Player
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
Centre is just the more valuable position by far. And securing a big, 1st line centre is huge for building a team. I think teams would take Scheiffele over Gaudreau to build around if they are starting from scratch 10 times out of 10. You need a big #1 centre to compete in this league and they are extremely hard to find. Wing is the easiest position to acquire.

Scheiffele goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft no question IMO.
It depends on the players. there are plenty of examples where the winger drives the offense

Toews or Kane?
Backstrom or Ovechkin?
Stastny or Tarasenko?

Would you seriously trade Gaudreau for Scheiffele?
Snuffleupagus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 05:35 PM   #55
Reggie Dunlop
All I can get
 
Reggie Dunlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
I think some of you are ignoring the dmen. I think Hamilton goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft. Top 2 dmen are more valuable overall than 1st line undersized wingers.
That's a very good point. Hamilton is a big part of this team moving forward, and that takes nothing away from Johnny.
Reggie Dunlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 06:10 PM   #56
Cali Panthers Fan
Franchise Player
 
Cali Panthers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
It depends on the players. there are plenty of examples where the winger drives the offense

Toews or Kane?
Backstrom or Ovechkin?
Stastny or Tarasenko?

Would you seriously trade Gaudreau for Scheiffele?
I would seriously consider it. I think they're both very, very good players but a step below the top echelon in the league. I'd take the bigger center honestly.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien View Post
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
Cali Panthers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 07:45 PM   #57
jammies
Basement Chicken Choker
 
jammies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
Would you seriously trade Gaudreau for Scheiffele?
As many have mentioned, he plays a more important position, and is much bigger. He also shoots right, so you could put him on Monahan's wing, let him take half the faceoffs, and run a first line of Tkachuk-Monahan-Scheiffele, which would be very hard for any team to defend against. So, yah, and I'm reasonably sure if the Flames were asked to trade one-for-one straight across, they would, while giggling and high-fiving all over the office commenced.

Oh yah, and I think he's cheaper, too.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
jammies is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jammies For This Useful Post:
Old 07-23-2017, 08:01 PM   #58
White Out 403
Franchise Player
 
White Out 403's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cape Breton Island
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke View Post
Am I the only one that thinks that Johnny's gonna blow Scheifle out of the water next season?

Its easy to rack up meaningless points on a non-playoff team, but hes also a 7th overall pick and a year older than Johnny.
Scheiffele has been improving steadily and steadily his whole career, and has become a consistent high end #1 Centre. He's big, scores a lot of points, and has good foot speed. Obviously not as fast as Johnny but yeah.

Scheiffele is the more complete player, and it's not much of a contest.
White Out 403 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 08:28 PM   #59
FireGilbert
Franchise Player
 
FireGilbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Brisbane
Exp:
Default

If the 2011 draft was done over the top three would be Scheifele, Gaudreau, and Hamilton. All three are great players and their order drafted would be a toss up depending on if you were looking for the best centre, the most skilled player, or the best defenceman.

I'm just happy to laugh at the Oilers who had 1st overall yet the Flames ended up with 2 superior players from the same draft.
__________________
The masses of humanity have always had to surf.

Last edited by FireGilbert; 07-23-2017 at 08:31 PM.
FireGilbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 08:38 PM   #60
djsFlames
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz View Post
The article said that Gaudreau is a perennial 60-70 point player, and that he would likely be a top 10 pick in a 2011 re-draft.

I don't know, I think that's selling him short.
Mark Scheifele and Kucherov are the only players that would arguably be drafted ahead of him.
Well so far he's proven to be a perennial 60-80 point player.

If people can put so much stock into Schiefele's last season, and call him an 80 point forward then you can put just as much into Gaudreau's 2nd season given that he missed time this past season and injury likely affected his output. I'd expect him to eclipse 70 again this year.

Kucherov, Gaudreau, and Schiefele are definitely the top 3 picks, and that's a very good top 3.
djsFlames is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:38 PM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021