07-23-2017, 02:22 PM
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#41
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Scoring Winger
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Calgary
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It would be interesting to redo this list without using the 1st and 2nd round and omitting 2015-2017 (because it's still early) just because I think later round success is even more surprising.
There's been a few gems in rounds 4 - 6 in the past 10 years. Brodie, Spurgeon, Pesce, Nyquist, Arvidsson and Slavin all deserve hm's. Palat should definitely be there I think. Freddie Andersson was initially a 7th round pick, re-drafted by Anaheim in the 3rd round too I believe..?
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07-23-2017, 02:23 PM
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#42
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Sure, in isolation. But we've got Monahan in the middle, Johnny makes an excellent complimentary piece.
He's like Kessel.
He's not going to carry your team, hes the guy thats going to kick your ass while you're too busy watching everyone else.
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You answered your own question.
He's an excellent complimentary piece.
But Johnny is not gonna drive the bus.
Yes he's like Kessel, who is an excellent player because of that Crosby kid.
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07-23-2017, 02:26 PM
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#43
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Am I the only one that thinks that Johnny's gonna blow Scheifle out of the water next season?
Its easy to rack up meaningless points on a non-playoff team, but hes also a 7th overall pick and a year older than Johnny.
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I"m not sure what draft pick he was in comparing who's better?
Even if Johnny has a few more points than him next season, Scheifle's overall game will always play better than Johnny's.
It's really no contest, and that's saying something as Johnny is excellent.
Now I will grant you that Johnny's been a bigger surprise than Scheifle, but is not a better player.
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07-23-2017, 02:45 PM
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#44
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
I love the part about the 2007 draft where the Oilers had three 1st round picks and five picks made before Dallas took Jamie Benn. I get that teams may have passed on Gaudreau because of his size but Benn was good immediately after being drafted for the Stars so what did scouts miss on him? How do scouts universally miss a guy that went from the 5th round to scoring 22 goals the next season in the NHL and never looking back?
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I found this.
Quote:
Benn was just 5-foot-3 when he was in Grade 10 before shooting up to a slight 6-foot-2 over the next couple of years. Some amateur scouts wondered if he was a slow skater, or simply not trying hard enough.
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Article also mentions other players that were steals such as Brodie.
http://nationalpost.com/sports/hocke...0-3fccaed39c7f
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07-23-2017, 03:25 PM
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#45
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Calgary
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How long until CP is accused of slanting the votes on that site too? Johnny crushing the poll. Lol
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07-23-2017, 03:43 PM
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#46
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Hmmmmmmm
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I'm glad we took a Flyer on Johnny.
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07-23-2017, 03:47 PM
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#47
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tromboner
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: where the lattes are
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
Johnny is not gonna drive the bus.
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This is nonsense. Gaudreau is a solid offensive catalyst and has the ability to create offense even in tight games. Opponents cannot count on being able to choke us out of games precisely because they can play great and still not be able to stop Gaudreau from making plays. He's a tremendous asset.
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07-23-2017, 03:56 PM
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#48
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SebC
This is nonsense. Gaudreau is a solid offensive catalyst and has the ability to create offense even in tight games. Opponents cannot count on being able to choke us out of games precisely because they can play great and still not be able to stop Gaudreau from making plays. He's a tremendous asset.
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What I mean by this is that Johnny will not be considered the most important player on his team, the #1 centre likely will be. That's what teams want to be able to compete for the SC.
There is a reason why centres are so highly valued. They need them to shut down the opposition as well as scoring. Johnny's value is offensive scoring, he's not playing any shut down role.
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07-23-2017, 04:05 PM
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#49
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz
The article said that Gaudreau is a perennial 60-70 point player, and that he would likely be a top 10 pick in a 2011 re-draft.
I don't know, I think that's selling him short.
Mark Scheifele and Kucherov are the only players that would arguably be drafted ahead of him.
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I think some of you are ignoring the dmen. I think Hamilton goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft. Top 2 dmen are more valuable overall than 1st line undersized wingers. Arguably Larsson maybe goes ahead of him as well, depends on the organizational philosophy.
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07-23-2017, 04:16 PM
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#50
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgaryblood
I'm glad we took a Flyer on Johnny.
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Boooooo! If I had batteries I'd throw them at you.
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
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07-23-2017, 04:29 PM
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#51
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
I think some of you are ignoring the dmen. I think Hamilton goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft. Top 2 dmen are more valuable overall than 1st line undersized wingers. Arguably Larsson maybe goes ahead of him as well, depends on the organizational philosophy.
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This is a good point. Personally I would have Dougie no lower than 4th in a re draft.
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07-23-2017, 04:40 PM
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#52
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
Scheifele had as many points in 2015-2016 as Johnny had last year (61), so this was not his first decent year.
Scheifele is a big centre who can score, and any team would take him easily over the smaller winger.
Johnny is a very talented player, but he is what he is, and his size will always limit him somewhat.
This is not meant as a slight to Johnny, but Scheifele would be likely be in discussion of the top 10 forwards teams would take if they were starting a franchise tomorrow.
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I disagree and Johnny put the "small" thing to bed his first year. If anything his size helps him and if they finally get rid of the hand slashings he'll be even more dangerous
So far:
JG - 0.88 PPG
MS- 0.74 PPG
Gaudreau has the ability to get 18,000 fans to rise from their seats many times a game like a Patrick Kane, Scheifele is good but he's a tier away in the talent level
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07-23-2017, 04:59 PM
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#53
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
I disagree and Johnny put the "small" thing to bed his first year. If anything his size helps him and if they finally get rid of the hand slashings he'll be even more dangerous
So far:
JG - 0.88 PPG
MS- 0.74 PPG
Gaudreau has the ability to get 18,000 fans to rise from their seats many times a game like a Patrick Kane, Scheifele is good but he's a tier away in the talent level
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Centre is just the more valuable position by far. And securing a big, 1st line centre is huge for building a team. I think teams would take Scheiffele over Gaudreau to build around if they are starting from scratch 10 times out of 10. You need a big #1 centre to compete in this league and they are extremely hard to find. Wing is the easiest position to acquire.
Scheiffele goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft no question IMO.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 07-23-2017 at 05:03 PM.
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07-23-2017, 05:29 PM
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#54
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Centre is just the more valuable position by far. And securing a big, 1st line centre is huge for building a team. I think teams would take Scheiffele over Gaudreau to build around if they are starting from scratch 10 times out of 10. You need a big #1 centre to compete in this league and they are extremely hard to find. Wing is the easiest position to acquire.
Scheiffele goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft no question IMO.
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It depends on the players. there are plenty of examples where the winger drives the offense
Toews or Kane?
Backstrom or Ovechkin?
Stastny or Tarasenko?
Would you seriously trade Gaudreau for Scheiffele?
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07-23-2017, 05:35 PM
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#55
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All I can get
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
I think some of you are ignoring the dmen. I think Hamilton goes ahead of Gaudreau in a redraft. Top 2 dmen are more valuable overall than 1st line undersized wingers.
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That's a very good point. Hamilton is a big part of this team moving forward, and that takes nothing away from Johnny.
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07-23-2017, 06:10 PM
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#56
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boca Raton, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
It depends on the players. there are plenty of examples where the winger drives the offense
Toews or Kane?
Backstrom or Ovechkin?
Stastny or Tarasenko?
Would you seriously trade Gaudreau for Scheiffele?
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I would seriously consider it. I think they're both very, very good players but a step below the top echelon in the league. I'd take the bigger center honestly.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
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07-23-2017, 07:45 PM
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#57
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Basement Chicken Choker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Would you seriously trade Gaudreau for Scheiffele?
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As many have mentioned, he plays a more important position, and is much bigger. He also shoots right, so you could put him on Monahan's wing, let him take half the faceoffs, and run a first line of Tkachuk-Monahan-Scheiffele, which would be very hard for any team to defend against. So, yah, and I'm reasonably sure if the Flames were asked to trade one-for-one straight across, they would, while giggling and high-fiving all over the office commenced.
Oh yah, and I think he's cheaper, too.
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Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
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07-23-2017, 08:01 PM
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#58
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cape Breton Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Am I the only one that thinks that Johnny's gonna blow Scheifle out of the water next season?
Its easy to rack up meaningless points on a non-playoff team, but hes also a 7th overall pick and a year older than Johnny.
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Scheiffele has been improving steadily and steadily his whole career, and has become a consistent high end #1 Centre. He's big, scores a lot of points, and has good foot speed. Obviously not as fast as Johnny but yeah.
Scheiffele is the more complete player, and it's not much of a contest.
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07-23-2017, 08:28 PM
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#59
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Brisbane
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If the 2011 draft was done over the top three would be Scheifele, Gaudreau, and Hamilton. All three are great players and their order drafted would be a toss up depending on if you were looking for the best centre, the most skilled player, or the best defenceman.
I'm just happy to laugh at the Oilers who had 1st overall yet the Flames ended up with 2 superior players from the same draft.
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Last edited by FireGilbert; 07-23-2017 at 08:31 PM.
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07-23-2017, 08:38 PM
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#60
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz
The article said that Gaudreau is a perennial 60-70 point player, and that he would likely be a top 10 pick in a 2011 re-draft.
I don't know, I think that's selling him short.
Mark Scheifele and Kucherov are the only players that would arguably be drafted ahead of him.
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Well so far he's proven to be a perennial 60-80 point player.
If people can put so much stock into Schiefele's last season, and call him an 80 point forward then you can put just as much into Gaudreau's 2nd season given that he missed time this past season and injury likely affected his output. I'd expect him to eclipse 70 again this year.
Kucherov, Gaudreau, and Schiefele are definitely the top 3 picks, and that's a very good top 3.
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