PP/PK discussion (update 12th/11th) - now with PP snek

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Cameron was an epic mistake from the start. What made the organization think this guy was the answer? I think GG is a good coach but he needs much better assistants.

Would a good coach keep bad special teams coaches?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Coaching plays a role in this but really this isn't a very good hockey team. Lots of undisciplined, one dimensional players. IMO this team is bottom 5 talented team in the NHL and I don't think I am going out on a limb here as their record over the last two 1.2 seasons kind of confirms it.

The year we made the playoffs was probably the worst thing that could have happened to this team. It created unrealistic expectations for both the team and the fan base. What we've seen these past 2 seasons is a more realistic view of where this team is at in the rebuilding stage.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Timbo

Then it's on the GM? It's his job to give the coaches the tools to do the job.

Maybe it's on the age of the players. Seriously people. Check out how many years of NHL experience each of the players and we need to be our best players actually has, then look at their ages. It's ok to be disappointed, but it's actually a nice reality check.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Coaching plays a role in this but really this isn't a very good hockey team. Lots of undisciplined, one dimensional players. IMO this team is bottom 5 talented team in the NHL and I don't think I am going out on a limb here as their record over the last two 1.2 seasons kind of confirms it.

This isn't a very good hockey team, but not for lack of talent. Gio, Brodie and Hamilton are all way above average offensive players from the blueline. They know how to pass and shoot, and it usually results in goals for.

Gaudreau (hurt, I know, but the PP was still garbage with him) is ridiculously talented. Monahan and Bennett are no slouches and Backlund even has some great puck skills. There is more than enough top end talent on this team to put together 1 decent PP unit.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Timbo

Then it's on the GM? It's his job to give the coaches the tools to do the job.

I think everyone has a hand in it but I also think management and fans have overrated the talent on this team.

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by Dion

The year we made the playoffs was probably the worst thing that could have happened to this team. It created unrealistic expectations for both the team and the fan base. What we've seen these past 2 seasons is a more realistic view of where this team is at in the rebuilding stage.

Developmentaly, yes I agree. But gawd dang I enjoyed the f out of it.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Dion

The year we made the playoffs was probably the worst thing that could have happened to this team. It created unrealistic expectations for both the team and the fan base. What we've seen these past 2 seasons is a more realistic view of where this team is at in the rebuilding stage.

Yeah and you can argue that even if you take away the playoff season that they would have expected better than a 8-12-1 team at this point. Simply not seeing any progress.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Would a good coach keep bad special teams coaches?

Is it really GG that can do that though? Tough for a coach to pick his assistants and then go to the GM not 20 games in and go "whoops, I made a poor choice, get me some new guys"

[Manhattanboy]

Vegas has a better coaching staff than us.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Still ahead of Vegas

They could hold the expansion draft tonight and get the team going for next next Monday, and I'm pretty sure LV's special teams would be better than this.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Is it really GG that can do that though? Tough for a coach to pick his assistants and then go to the GM not 20 games in and go "whoops, I made a poor choice, get me some new guys"

I think sometimes its a sign of a good leader, recognizing a mistake and fixing it right away. People are willing to forgive if they can fix it and start getting results.

As it stands now we are going to lose a year for a draft pick we probably don't need, not to mention certain players getting older; Plus ore uncertainty when some contracts come off the books and new players are asked to step in. I think the best thing for GG is to admit the special teams is not working and try to save the season.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Surely a head coach knows how to run a powerplay and can put his foot down on the matter. If the PP sucks, it isn't just Cameron.

I said it in the game thread, but Gulutzan never had a "good" powerplay when he was running Vancouver's.

But those seminars tho........

[Samonadreau]

On the PP they should just keep playing like it's 5 on 5 and it would be like real dominant 5 on 5 no?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The PK has a lot to do with goaltending. They're doing a good job of suppressing shots. So that'll hopefully improve on its own with time. The PP is harder, because they're not only not doing a good job of getting rubber on net, they're also not converting chances. I'd say simplify the process, get more pucks through from the blue line and hope for a bounce or whack away at some rebounds.

The bright spot for the Flames is that they're at least drawing a lot of penalties, so if they can figure out how to convert on them at even an average rate, there are goals waiting to be scored there.

[tvp2003]

This team isn't being coached to play aggressive offence, and they're too soft/tentative to play an effective PK.

Even if they're not going to outright fire Cameron et al they better be working on Plan B or C because the current plan has been a complete failure. I don't care how good you're playing 5 on 5, being last in both PP and PK is on the coaches first, players second.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

####. This "cap spending crap" people are trouncing out to justify their emotional outrage at hiw the season is going. Does anyone actually believe that the fact we are a cap spending team this year means that management views this team as a finished product or that we are already in this core's prime?

We can only judge what is currently on the ice, for a cap team how can anyone even begin to make an argument for good management.

[Bunk]

Figure out who runs the best special teams in the AHL (for instance), and hire them as assistants. Fire current ones.

[Mister Yamoto]

That is actually impressive. I wonder how long they can sustain it.

[Brouhaha]

I get it. Someone has to be last in PP and PK in the league. However, to be last in both once again is a real head scratcher. Maybe I've been under the illusion that we have guys on this team who can be counted on to play well while up or short a man. We've gone from 16th PP and 20th PK 2 seasons ago to what we have seen the last season and 20+ games. Some different coaches and different players, we all see that. The results have been some poor play, execution and sometimes personnel choices for the PP especially.

The coaches must see things very differently and I only see what is on TV, so they have a much better perspective than I do, obviously. With that in mind, wouldn't it be obvious that some players may be better fits on special teams than what is currently being thrown out on the ice atm? I have seen several AHL players get regular shifts on the PP, for example. So, they're not quite good enough to get a regular roster spot but when recalled they are part of the 2 PP units? I'm definitely no NHL coach, but doesn't that seem funny? Not haha funny, but you know... funny?



Still, Go Flames Go!

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I said it in the game thread, but Gulutzan never had a "good" powerplay when he was running Vancouver's.

But those seminars tho........

"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."

- George Bernard Shaw

Apparently we hired a professor of coaching instead of an NHL head coach.