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Old 02-23-2013, 06:54 PM   #381
moon
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Originally Posted by CliffFletcher View Post
Yeah, because we know how candid NHL players are about this sort of thing.

Also, being a great guy who is loved by his teammates =/= great leader.

If the Flames have been a well-lead, committed team this past six years I shudder to think what the results would have been on the ice if they had lacked cohesion and commitment.
The Flames problem is that they lack talent not some garbage about Iginla's leadership.

And if players didn't think he was a good leader they don't have to say anything. Bringing it up all the time seems like an odd thing for people that thought he sucked to do.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:56 PM   #382
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Iginla vs Warrener? Wasn't that just like.. last week, in the media?

Iginla vs Regehr? When?

Iginla vs Phaneuf? Phaneuf is the enemy when ya need him to be, now he's this great locker room guy. Interesting.

News flash, 23 guys never get along. Any cup winning teams will have a fight or locker room stuff going on at any one point. If you've ever played any type of team sport you should know this.

But alas, Iginla the devil.
Warrener and Regehr consistently called out the forward group which included Iginla who was obviously the guy running the offense.

Phaneuf has been the captain for about 2 seasons now and I am not sure how many Leafs players have gone against him. He isn't a great room guy but he isn't a bad guy either.

Well isn't it odd that good teams always find a way to play as a cohesive unit and rarely do you hear any speculation of arguments for teams like Detroit, Boston and even Vancouver.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:57 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache View Post
More like STH cost. Which is less than face value.
My point stands as half of the tickets are still remaining available and not being sold

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Old 02-23-2013, 06:59 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by moon View Post
The Flames problem is that they lack talent not some garbage about Iginla's leadership.

And if players didn't think he was a good leader they don't have to say anything. Bringing it up all the time seems like an odd thing for people that thought he sucked to do.
There are teams that have had less talent than the Flames for the last 5 seasons who have better records. I would suggest those teams are tougher to play against than the Flames. And I'd suggest they're tougher to play against because everyone on the ice is committed to a two-way, unselfish game and they stick to the coach's plan. And I'd suggest they're committed and they stick to the coach's plan because they're well-led.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:04 PM   #385
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There are teams that have had less talent than the Flames for the last 5 seasons who have better records. I would suggest those teams are tougher to play against than the Flames. And I'd suggest they're tougher to play against because everyone on the ice is committed to a two-way, unselfish game and they stick to the coach's plan. And I'd suggest they're committed and they stick to the coach's plan because they're well-led.
That sure sounds like a coaching problem and an odd thing to blame on the Captain.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:06 PM   #386
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That sure sounds like a coaching problem and an odd thing to blame on the Captain.
Yeah let's continue to blame the 400 different coaches but let's not worry about the only constant which has been the leadership and the stars of the team.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:10 PM   #387
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Yeah let's continue to blame the 400 different coaches but let's not worry about the only constant which has been the leadership and the stars of the team.
I blamed the players that have been here earlier on and numerous times on this site.

I am not blaming the coaches for the Flames record but for that specific problem it would the coaches (of any team) that would be at fault.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:29 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm View Post
It's mostly frustration Flash, the way you and some others have seemingly rewritten history and have started to attribute things to Iginla to dram him down. The overwhelming negativity is just getting frustrating and annoying.
I'm not defiantly telling you to 'prove it' here, but just because I can say that Iginla played 6 minutes less than his linemates in the olympics (benched) doesn't mean I'm rewriting history here. The same for the Amonte thing before. My argument is constantly mischaracterised and intentionally distorted

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Case in point. How the hell does Playfair apologizing to Amonte look bad on Iginla?

Now that's Iginla's fault all of a sudden?!?!?!
Because the team obviously turned on Playfair after Amonte he was benched which forced Playfair, if he wanted a shred of effort from these guys, to acquiesce to the core leadership on the team, and apologize to a slumping veteran playing awful hockey.

The Captain is the conduit from the Coach to the rest of the players. The Captain's main job is to insure accountability to a team oriented structure of play laid out by the team. The Coach is the lieutenant, the Captain is the Sergeant.

He is the focal point in the locker room and is in many ways an assistant coach. It's the captain's job to make it uncomfortable for players to play outside of the system, the team game, and it's the Captain's responsibility to make sure they can't shirk or hide from that responsibility or make it a problem for other players. That's what accountability is.

Regardless, it is but a fraction of the evidence we have towards the leadership on this team being ineffective to downright disruptive. Steve Staios for a 3rd round pick? "Veteran Leadership". Staios plays with pride.

"This is a tough team to coach."

You have a coach giving an interview in the media talking about his own evolution as a player, from a scorer to a defensive player, depending on how the needs of his team changed and how his abilities as a player decreased. Brent is talking about the idea of the captain of the team doing what it takes to win rather than scoring points believing that will lead to victory.

The followup is the star player doesn't believe he needs to bear down on the defensive side of things. It's more important to score goals than to prevent goals. That seems to be the way Iginla has always thought and no coach seems to be able to change his mind. Sure enough, he's not scoring, and therefore not contributing because he can't play away from the puck.

Backlund doesn't eat the puck in the dying seconds of a game resulting in a turnover and the team tying it up, winning in the shootout? The forum, collectively, blames the player. Iginla doesn't bear down on a puck to clear the zone with seconds left in a game? Posters start telling us about how many shots and hits he had during the game.

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We're placing one of the most mismanaged teams on Iginla shoulders all of a sudden. It's just annoying and foolish.
That's not what I"m doing at all.

I'm saying, let's not blow smoke up our collective anuses talking about what a great and effective leader Iginla is when he's lead a team 1 place 1 time and didn't deliver. It's not his fault the team can't draft a beer in a brewery, but being the worst defensive player on the team for two crucial playoff games? Yeah, he's responsible for that. It's a continuous problem.

Also, I get it. He used to be my favourite player too, but I'm not willing to just pretend like it was Boyd who didn't clear a puck against Detroit with 8 seconds left, up by a goal, in the third period with playoff lives literally on the line, it was a different player. It was the captain. That's not good leadership.

Accountability.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:55 PM   #389
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That sure sounds like a coaching problem and an odd thing to blame on the Captain.
A coaching system only works if the players buy in. All of the players.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:05 AM   #390
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A coaching system only works if the players buy in. All of the players.
..and if it's a good system for that particular team.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:06 AM   #391
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My point stands as half of the tickets are still remaining available and not being sold
It is tough being corrected on the Internet. Congratulations.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:56 AM   #392
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..and if it's a good system for that particular team.
I think you meant a good system for that particular player. The Sutter system was the best system for the Flames but Jarome did not like it as much. Now the Flames have a better system for Jarome.
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