I mean we're going in circles, which is literally the issue with the region.
But nobody here can deny, well besides Zary who just makes up crap to excuse his ridiculous viewpoints, that Israel has fought wars and then subsequently made lasting peace with certain countries.
Of course that FACT won't stop the usual suspects from completely ignoring the FACT that Hamas hides among civilians, launches attacks FROM civilian areas, for the specific reason that Israel gets blamed if they retaliate and civilians are killed.
FACT.
So what the usual suspects are saying is that Hamas has the right to launch attacks, and Israel has no right to defend themselves.
Which is rather strange, considering the same usual suspects posted in this exact thread when Israel launched attacks on Iran that "Iran has the right to defend itself."
Funny how an actual terrorist nation is given the right to defend itself, but Israel isn't, and how Hamas has no responsibility for the thousands of civilians that have died because they intentionally use them as human shields.
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I mean we're going in circles, which is literally the issue with the region.
But nobody here can deny, well besides Zary who just makes up crap to excuse his ridiculous viewpoints, that Israel has fought wars and then subsequently made lasting peace with certain countries.
Of course that FACT won't stop the usual suspects from completely ignoring the FACT that Hamas hides among civilians, launches attacks FROM civilian areas, for the specific reason that Israel gets blamed if they retaliate and civilians are killed.
FACT.
So what the usual suspects are saying is that Hamas has the right to launch attacks, and Israel has no right to defend themselves.
Which is rather strange, considering the same usual suspects posted in this exact thread when Israel launched attacks on Iran that "Iran has the right to defend itself."
Funny how an actual terrorist nation is given the right to defend itself, but Israel isn't, and how Hamas has no responsibility for the thousands of civilians that have died because they intentionally use them as human shields.
Do you think it would make sense for them to build a military base? Is it possible the way they operate is the only logical way they could have any sort of defensive or offensive capabilities?
I'm not asking you to defend their philosophies or anything, but I feel like a child could at least understand why they are totally unable to build any sort of traditional military or have any military infrastructure since Israel would destroy it.
Are you mentally equipped to put yourself in the shoes of a Palestinian who wants to defend the people they love from Israel's aggression? Keep in mind, of course, Israel - over the past 25 years - has inflicted thousands of more injuries and murders upon Palestinians than the other way around. Without even taking a side, I can at least acknowledge that Palestinians have no way of building a military base or operating a formal military so long as Israel is their neighbour.
We're talking really basic stuff here, dude. If you can't grasp the basics, how can you expect to be taken seriously as you build arguments from such simple flaws in your understanding?
Is 13,000 dead children a reasonable amount of collateral damage when defending oneself? Seems grossly disproportionate to the threat level posed by Hamas but would be interested in defining the acceptable number of kids you’d sacrifice to save a future Israeli life?
Essentially to support Israel’s current campaign that number must exist.
So what the usual suspects are saying is that Hamas has the right to launch attacks, and Israel has no right to defend themselves.
This needs to be called out. You can't keep making things up to make your points. It's totally unacceptable for you to continue to do this and then not respond when called out on it.
0 people or 0 "usual suspects" have said anything remotely close to this.
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Is 13,000 dead children a reasonable amount of collateral damage when defending oneself? Seems grossly disproportionate to the threat level posed by Hamas but would be interested in defining the acceptable number of kids you’d sacrifice to save a future Israeli life?
Essentially to support Israel’s current campaign that number must exist.
I think it's become apparent that people who support Israel's current campaign view any dead Palestinian as a feature and not a bug. Once you understand that, their perspective makes sense.
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I mean we're going in circles, which is literally the issue with the region.
But nobody here can deny, well besides Zary who just makes up crap to excuse his ridiculous viewpoints, that Israel has fought wars and then subsequently made lasting peace with certain countries.
Of course that FACT won't stop the usual suspects from completely ignoring the FACT that Hamas hides among civilians, launches attacks FROM civilian areas, for the specific reason that Israel gets blamed if they retaliate and civilians are killed.
FACT.
So what the usual suspects are saying is that Hamas has the right to launch attacks, and Israel has no right to defend themselves.
Which is rather strange, considering the same usual suspects posted in this exact thread when Israel launched attacks on Iran that "Iran has the right to defend itself."
Funny how an actual terrorist nation is given the right to defend itself, but Israel isn't, and how Hamas has no responsibility for the thousands of civilians that have died because they intentionally use them as human shields.
This is standard operating procedure of asymmetrical warfare. It was how the Americans operated during the American revolution, it's how the Viet Cong operated during the Vietnam War, and it's how Hamas operates now. The Hamas fighters are usually just normal guys running a bakery or a grocery store, with a side gig in launching rockets at Sderot. Them going home at the end of the night doesn't mean they're using human shields.
This is standard operating procedure of asymmetrical warfare. It was how the Americans operated during the American revolution, it's how the Viet Cong operated during the Vietnam War, and it's how Hamas operates now. The Hamas fighters are usually just normal guys running a bakery or a grocery store, with a side gig in launching rockets at Sderot. Them going home at the end of the night doesn't mean they're using human shields.
Bold of you to assume they have bakeries and homes.
I think it's become apparent that people who support Israel's current campaign view any dead Palestinian as a feature and not a bug. Once you understand that, their perspective makes sense.
Not to put words in peoples mouth but I suspect they blame Hamas for those deaths which allows them to not have to consider the question.
Not to put words in peoples mouth but I suspect they blame Hamas for those deaths which allows them to not have to consider the question.
I think this whole conflict is a good case study for why perfidy is a war crime. When an adversary has a history of perfidious behaviour, civilians lose their security. It's unfortunate, but that is where things are at now.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Not to put words in peoples mouth but I suspect they blame Hamas for those deaths which allows them to not have to consider the question.
I don't blame Hamas 100% because I feel Israel could operate differently to avoid civilian causalities. But I also think Israel has decided that the time for that is past, and the reason for that is Oct 7.
It has basically turned into a campaign for vengeance, and we all know how that usually ends.
Also, the reason I don't bother responding to the the stupidity of 'oh you just make excuses for Israel' is because it goes without saying that during a time of war, the aggressor almost always operates in a way that is extremely regretful after the fact. Even if they think their cause is justified, and even if we all agree that the cause is justified. In WW2 we firebombed cities and justified it. Not calling this WW2, because it isn't to us, but Israel has clearly approached it from that direction.
Also, if we really want to blame someone, blame our government for turning a blind eye to where our money was going the past 20 years. Because it funded and helped create this mess.
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Not to put words in peoples mouth but I suspect they blame Hamas for those deaths which allows them to not have to consider the question.
I definitely feel that Hamas shares the blame for the Palestinian lives lost.
I believe the only path to peace in the region is for Hamas to be eliminated. No way a terrorist organization should be governing Gaza. I don’t think Hamas wants peace with Israel.
Israel has, rightfully so, been criticized for the amount of casualties in this conflict and damage they have done to Gaza. This criticism is warranted.
Unfortunately the people paying the biggest price of all are the citizens of Gaza. Hopefully their lives can be rebuilt under a government that wants to live in peace with their neighbours, and hopefully Israel also chooses peace after Hamas is no longer in power.
It doesn't matter though, since in the same address, he said, "No decision, either at The Hague or anywhere else, will in any way undermine our determination to achieve all the objectives of the war.".
I suggested that Israel should learn from the US months ago and just assert that The Hague is not relevant (**"only if the west did something wrong!1!"**). All that's left to do now is for Bibi to officially threaten the international court, like the US has done, because well, do as I say, not as I do! Rules-based order, forever! F international laws! And the west will fall in line, as always.
Quote:
Originally Posted by activeStick
What Israel needs to do is what the US did with the "American Service-Members' Protection Act" which states, "The Act authorizes the president of the United States to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court". This authorization led to the act being colloquially nicknamed "The Hague Invasion Act", as the act allows the president to order U.S. military action, such as an invasion of the Netherlands, where The Hague is located, to protect American officials and military personnel from prosecution or rescue them from custody.[3][4]"
Ultimate protection and perfect alignment to the "Rules-based Order" of the world (i.e. the West).
It would allow them to hold others accountable to atrocities, but protects them from doing what they shun others for. The US is the world's one true beacon of democracy, freedom and human rights!
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Imagine Israel invading the Netherlands. Tragedy and hilarity ensues as the IDF is surprised that their training to murder and rape innocent women and children doesn't really work against a professional military.
I mean we're going in circles, which is literally the issue with the region.
But nobody here can deny, well besides Zary who just makes up crap to excuse his ridiculous viewpoints, that Israel has fought wars and then subsequently made lasting peace with certain countries.
Of course that FACT won't stop the usual suspects from completely ignoring the FACT that Hamas hides among civilians, launches attacks FROM civilian areas, for the specific reason that Israel gets blamed if they retaliate and civilians are killed.
FACT.
So what the usual suspects are saying is that Hamas has the right to launch attacks, and Israel has no right to defend themselves.
Which is rather strange, considering the same usual suspects posted in this exact thread when Israel launched attacks on Iran that "Iran has the right to defend itself."
Funny how an actual terrorist nation is given the right to defend itself, but Israel isn't, and how Hamas has no responsibility for the thousands of civilians that have died because they intentionally use them as human shields.
Seems I have to post this again every few pages.
__________________
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Saw a young brave Jewish man today at the Columbia University standing up for the Palestinian people and rightfully calling it a genocide. There is hope in the world when people can look past what God they believe in or what race they are and just stand up for humanity.
Just pasting items 1-5, of a 13 item explanation from the link above.
One doesn't need to be a fortune-teller to understand that the Israel-US game plan for Gaza runs something like this:
1. In public, Biden appears “tough” on Netanyahu, urging him not to “invade” Rafah and pressuring him to allow more “humanitarian aid” into Gaza.
2. But already the White House is preparing the ground to subvert its own messaging. It insists that Israel has offered an “extraordinarily generous” deal to Hamas – one that, Washington suggests, amounts to a ceasefire. It doesn’t. According to reports, the best Israel has offered is an undefined “period of sustained calm”. Even that promise can’t be trusted.
3. If Hamas accepts the “deal” and agrees to return some of the hostages, the bombing eases for a short while but the famine intensifies, justified by Israel’s determination for “total victory” against Hamas – something that is impossible to achieve. This will simply delay, for a matter of days or weeks, Israel’s move to step 5 below.
4. If, as seems more likely, Hamas rejects the “deal”, it will be painted as the intransigent party and blamed for seeking to continue the “war”. (Note: This was never a war. Only the West pretends either that you can be at war with a territory you’ve been occupying for decades, or that Hamas “started the war” with its October 7 attack when Israel has been blockading the enclave, creating despair and incremental malnutrition there, for 17 years.)
Last night US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken moved this script on by stating Hamas was “the only thing standing between the people of Gaza and a ceasefire… They have to decide and they have to decide quickly”.
5. The US will announce that Israel has devised a humanitarian plan that satisfies the conditions Biden laid down for an attack on Rafah to begin.
“
Last edited by robertsfan; 04-30-2024 at 10:25 PM.
Reason: Text
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