Not to mention Inglewood to the east, which is the same walking distance from Saddledome to midpoint of 17th ave (4ST W). The location is in centre of pedestrian areas.
Keeping it alive while saying it is absolutely not feasible, and no actual work is going on, and hasn't for some time, seems to be to humour Ken King, or let him save face, or something.
Well, maybe it is just to keep the door open just in case the ownership group makes it feasible by contributing a whole lot more money into it.. closer to 100%? I am sure that at that point, CalgaryNext would definitely be worked on.
Well, maybe it is just to keep the door open just in case the ownership group makes it feasible by contributing a whole lot more money into it.. closer to 100%? I am sure that at that point, CalgaryNext would definitely be worked on.
Regardless of money, the problem with CalgaryNEXT is that it needs a ton of time and effort just to get it to a place where they can start building the complex. It would need a significant amount of effort just in terms of remediation and possible infrastructure re-alignment to get it moving. You're probably looking at a couple of years just to get it ready.
Victoria Park on the other hand is basically a dirt lot ready to be built on. All they have to do is move that beautiful tree.
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Funding models aside - what are peoples opinion on the trade-off between the two projects? Obviously the funding model is a critical component, but this is also the most negotiable component. For me the two projects break down as follows:
Victoria Park Benefits:
1. In conjunction with the Green line, access to this location from throughout the city is far better than the any alternative proposed.
2. Easiest path (likely fastest) to a new arena. Based on the presentation today and the size of area allocated, this would be a middle of road entertainment center.
3. Allows the city to develop to completion in the East before moving west.
Drawback
1. Fit for purpose design with a bit of perks to get excited about if Stampede Trail becomes a reality. Based on both size and application, this arena lacks the flare factor.
2. Limited traffic at the arena/event center outside of events (much like the saddle dome). Outside of a few extra concerts per year, I don't think there will be regular traffic at this facility. I suspect this will affect the viability of the stampede trail businesses.
Calgary Next:
Benefits
1. Despite what this thread has deteriorated the project too; in terms of facilities and amenities, this is a well thought out project attempting to capture a number of different sporting and entertainment facilities and applications. The actual idea behind Calgary Next as a facility is something that would be easy to get excited about.
2. Consistent traffic through the facility will also improve the viability of a surrounding entertainment district and central gathering place.
Drawbacks
1. In addition to the environmental clean-up, currently the only planned public transportation station is Sunalta (going east-west only). The additional road traffic modifications required around Bow Trail and Crowchild trail is a massive undertaking.
2. There is a risk that a renewed financial focus on West Village will leave two partially completed projects 20 years down the road.
Does this more or less capture it for most, or are there key positives and drawbacks that I am missing on both projects? Am I misleading in my analysis?
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CSEC needs convincing that an area with the National Music Centre, a new arena, a developed East Village, and the library would become an entertainment district?
Maybe a bit of a double standard? Not so sure he was able to prove that with CalgaryNEXT.
Maybe he has big plans for turning Mewata into the city's most decrepit nightclub? Something to do in the skatepark in the middle of winter? I'm not sure how well Sunalta Community Center is doing these days, but I'm sure there's room for another bingo a week.
Every time he opens his mouth lately...
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What's the size of the wings new arena. Would something like it fit here. I think it looks amazing from the pictures.
What could we have as a compatible with this sized land?
The Prudential Center in Newark is almost exactly the same size as the two blocks being discussed in Victoria Park. It not only has the NHL arena, it also has the Devils practice rink in that footprint.
The total size of the footprint in Detroit appears to be slightly wider than what's being discussed for Calgary, but that includes stuff outside of the arena proper. The arena itself would fit.
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2. Limited traffic at the arena/event center outside of events (much like the saddle dome). Outside of a few extra concerts per year, I don't think there will be regular traffic at this facility. I suspect this will affect the viability of the stampede trail businesses.
Calgary Next:
Benefits
2. Consistent traffic through the facility will also improve the viability of a surrounding entertainment district and central gathering place.
Does this more or less capture it for most, or are there key positives and drawbacks that I am missing on both projects? Am I misleading in my analysis?
The boxed-in nature of the West Village (moreso than Victoria Park), poorer transit access, and the size of the footprint of the facility on the land to be developed means there isn't much to develop beyond the facility. Hardly a great place to gather. Tracks to the south, 14th to the East, and Bow Trail create a lot less flow than Victoria Park which has better access across the tracks (not great, but better) but has much better access to and from the Beltline via 11th and 12th Ave and is still very walkable from 17th. A lot more room for flow to build up a district around it that builds off surrounding neighborhoods.
The Fieldhouse won't provide much additional traffic, certainly not the kind that would be beneficial for an entertainment district, so I don't know what makes CalgaryNEXT more condusive to an entertainment district than the Victoria Park location that has the vested interest of the CMLC and Stampede along with the Flames. The biggest hinderance to any development of that area has been the Stampede and the dinosaurs who run it, which is where the CMLC comes in. Much better chance of things being done than if CSEC go at it alone.
Last edited by Roughneck; 04-24-2017 at 05:53 PM.
Reason: Had an unfinished thought
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Completely irrational, but I'm finding that I would be a lot more on the Flames side if Ken King would dispense with the snark. It is getting really tiresome listening to all his little snipes and barbs. And his general sense of entitlement to my tax $. And no, Nenshi ain't much better.
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Most of the new facilities include practice rinks, correct? I know Edmonton does (have seen it). Presumably to allow for greater flexibility for the main rink.
That Nenshi video has me pretty angry, and it's mostly directed towards the Flames. I've been a season ticket holder for 8 years now and have had to listen to Ken King's BS about the new stadium each and every year at appreciation events, and finally after 8 years it appears that an actual real conversation is starting to occur between the City and the Flames and it's going to take years to wade through this before shovels are in the ground.
How is it again Ken King still has a job? To my understanding it was his mandate to get a new stadium built and it has taken him 8 friggen years just to get to a point where the two sides are talking when these conversations should have been the first point of contact between the the City and the Flames.
I've heard people say over the years that the project is probably much further along then we probably know and that the Flames and the City were just doing it behind closed doors. I actually don't believe that at all this point. I actually think today marks the first date where the two are probably actually on the same page.
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CSEC needs convincing that an area with the National Music Centre, a new arena, a developed East Village, and the library would become an entertainment district?
Really?
It sure isn't now. Take a spin by there after 5:30 pm or on the weekend. Not a single person in sight.
