2016 World Cup of Hockey

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

The NHL thinks it costs too much because it's a two week break that cuts into their revenues. Big time hockey is played and they don't get a single cent from the tickets, march, etc.

That's basically why they want to bring back the World Cup. If they can replace olympic hockey with World Cup hockey, they get all the profits.

People have the most twisted ideas about the link between the World Cup and the Olympics. To repost something from another thread:

As was discussed in McLean's interview with Bettman, and by Elliot Friedman on the broadcast during (IIRC) game 1 of the finals, whether the pro players go the the Olympics or not revolves around a beef between the IOC and the IIHF over transportation costs and insurance. See this article:

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said Tuesday afternoon that little progress had been made with respect to the league's participation in the 2018 Games. Daly said the league was recently updated on talks between the International Ice Hockey Federation and International Olympic Committee, and those talks didn't look good.

"I'm not going to handicap it, but what I'd say is I think time is very short to make a decision and I'm not sure there's been a lot of progress made in the past six months," Daly said ahead of the World Cup of Hockey final between Canada and Europe. "And I'm not sure there's any prospect of progress being made.

"So on the basis of that I would say I'm more negative today than I was two weeks ago."

The IOC has suggested that it won't the pay out-of-pocket expenses it has historically covered alongside the IIHF. Rene Fasel, the IIHF's president, told the Associated Press earlier on Tuesday that he believed the odds were 50-50 that the NHL would participate.

This article goes even further:

As Canada appears ready to hoist the World Cup of Hockey trophy and prove we are the dominant hockey nation, the media narrative will likely once again debate whether the event is going to mean the end of NHL participation in the Olympics. Here's the thing – the two aren't interdependent.

As much as the spin has been an "either or" conversation, the success (or lack thereof, depending on your opinion) of the past two weeks will have nothing to do with whether or not Sidney Crosby will suit up for Canada in Pyeongchang, Korea.

Olympic participation relies on one simple question – will the IOC continue to front the bills to bring professional hockey players to the Olympic Games?

.....

Generating revenue and growing the game internationally is precisely why the World Cup of Hockey is a separate and distinct conversation from NHL Olympic participation in Pyeongchang 2018. The NHL and the Olympics still need each other. So instead of looking at the re-emergence of the World Cup of Hockey as a threat to NHL participation in the Olympic Games, it should be viewed for what it is: a hockey property created to generate additional revenue directly to the NHL and NHLPA.

If fans are worried their favourite NHL players won't be playing for Team Canada in 2018, it isn't because the World Cup of Hockey took place this fall. It also isn't likely that the finger should be pointed at Canada's favourite villain Gary Bettman. It's most likely because IOC president Thomas Bach decided to draw a line in the sand on funding professional participation and refused to insure the NHL for lending him their players.

Perhaps the public positioning of both the NHL and the IOC is merely a power play. A test of egos. If that's the case, the next 500 days should be interesting.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

no way McDavid makes team Canada. Giroux is amazing and he was on the fringe. Even Hall and Gallagher are currently ahead of McDavid on the pecking order

And if he doesn't make Canada's roster, then that just furthers the point I was making in my post; the point that you missed.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

And if he doesn't make Canada's roster, then that just furthers the point I was making in my post; the point that you missed.

I've also addressed that point earlier.

/if you can't make your national team, the tournament won't miss you.

soccer world cups 33rd team hee
http://blogs.reuters.com/soccer/2009...ups-33rd-team/

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I've also addressed that point earlier.

/if you can't make your national team, the tournament won't miss you.

That's asinine.

Considering the tournament is about generating revenue - yes, the tournament would most definitely miss players such as Gaudreau, MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid, Ekblad, Gostisbehere, Parayko, Rielly, etc, etc.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

That's asinine.

Considering the tournament is about generating revenue - yes, the tournament would most definitely miss players such as Gaudreau, MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid, Ekblad, Gostisbehere, Parayko, Rielly, etc, etc.

It's not asinine. What's asinine is to suggest a tournament should have fake teams to try and generate interest.

Fact of the matter is that when fans care, revenue will follow. None of those guys you named were at the Olympics in 2014 and no one minded. Honestly if watching the best guys was all anyone cared about they would do a league wide draft for 6-8 random teams and it would be 50% Canadians.

Young guys miss out on team canada all the time. Kinda sucks but once the tourney starts, who gives a crap.

Team NA were a blessing and a curse at this tourney. No one cared so they provided a source of interest but part of the reason no one cared was the existence of NA and Europe teams.

Give his tourney a couple of chances as an offset to the olympics, with no gimmick teams, and no one will mention a peep about not caring because some young player who isn't good enough to make their country's team missed. Plus by next cycle of olympics or World Cup pretty much all the guys who would have missed this time should make it. And if they don't, big whoop, they didn't deserve to be there.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

None of those guys you named were at the Olympics in 2014 and no one minded.

Of course they weren't. They were all on the U23 team, many of them hadn't even been drafted in 2014 and all of them except MacKinnon and Rielly weren't close to cracking NHL lineups.

Auston Matthews was 16 when those Olympics began. McDavid had just turned 17. Ekblad turned 18 the day of the Opening Ceremony.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

It's not asinine. What's asinine is to suggest a tournament should have fake teams to try and generate interest.

Fact of the matter is that when fans care, revenue will follow. None of those guys you named were at the Olympics in 2014 and no one minded.

This World Cup generated more revenue for the league than the 2014 Olympics.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

This World Cup generated more revenue for the league than the 2014 Olympics.

What exactly is your point? Or are you moving the goalposts? Is this about seeing players we want to see? Seeing hockey people care about? Because the olympics wins hands down. If this tourney had that, it would've made more revenue. And it won't be making any revenue if they cancel it for lack of interest because of gimmick teams.

There should be no NA or Europe teams. They have no place at a country vs country tournament.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Of course they weren't. They were all on the U23 team, many of them hadn't even been drafted in 2014 and all of them except MacKinnon and Rielly weren't close to cracking NHL lineups.

Auston Matthews was 16 when those Olympics began. McDavid had just turned 17. Ekblad turned 18 the day of the Opening Ceremony.

Well duh but that's missing the point. No one cared who wasn't there because they cared about watching Canada. The only time people discuss who wasn't there, is when a team loses and they think it is because the GM made bad selections.

the overwhelming majority of hockey fans didn't say that 2014 or 2010 etc Olympic hockey was boring because they didn't get to watch player x. They didn't give a crap because they got to watch exciting world hockey.

[Mike F]

Reading through this threat, it amazes me how much passion people have for making sure everyone knows how little they care about something.

This truly is #GenerationButthurtHipster

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

What exactly is your point? Or are you moving the goalposts? Is this about seeing players we want to see? Seeing hockey people care about?

This tournament is about making money. They made more money at this tournament, with their gimmick teams, than the tournament you referenced (2014 Olympics), which I assume was because you believe it to be the high-water mark in terms of international competition.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Because the olympics wins hands down. If this tourney had that, it would've made more revenue.

So you're saying that, had this tournament brought Teams Slovakia, Slovenia, Norway, Austria, Switzerland, and Latvia, it would have earned more revenue than it did by bringing Teams Europe, and U23?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

The NHL thinks it costs too much because it's a two week break that cuts into their revenues. Big time hockey is played and they don't get a single cent from the tickets, march, etc.

That's basically why they want to bring back the World Cup. If they can replace olympic hockey with World Cup hockey, they get all the profits.

First paragraph, wrong. They do not shorten the season for the Olympics, they compress the schedule. I am pretty sure they can manage cash flow around that.

But yes a home grown and owned best on best does get them additional revenue.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Reading through this threat, it amazes me how much passion people have for making sure everyone knows how little they care about something.

This truly is #GenerationButthurtHipster

Meh. Placeholder arguments. If the season had started we'd be discussing how the coaches terrible choice of fourth line wingers is destroying our team.

[Sune76]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Weird. Sune76 hasn't been in here yet?

What a surprise. lol

I'll be back at world juniors. See ya all

[GirlySports]

we're arguing different things.

I thought the made up teams were fun. But it then becomes a made up tournament (an invitational like the Spengler Cup) not a World Cup. The true World Cup is the annual World Championships every May. It has 16 teams and equal opportunity for all nations. The fact that the NHL can't adjust its season to get the best players there, that's on them. For example the KHL plays from Late August to mid-April. No reason why the NHL cannot have a parallel schedule.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

we're arguing different things.

I thought the made up teams were fun. But it then becomes a made up tournament (an invitational like the Spengler Cup) not a World Cup. The true World Cup is the annual World Championships every May. It has 16 teams and equal opportunity for all nations. The fact that the NHL can't adjust its season to get the best players there, that's on them. For example the KHL plays from Late August to mid-April. No reason why the NHL cannot have a parallel schedule.

All tournaments are "made up" in that case.

And no, the World Championships are not the World Cup...never have been and never will be.

Its ridiculous to suggest that NHL change it's schedule to accomodate that tournament....maybe if they want the best players the IIHF should be the ones to adjust when its played?

As for asking the NHL to play in late August? Horrible idea. Even the NFL doesnt start til September and thats because people are doing different things while the sun is still shining warm and particularly in cold weather areas. Nevermind the nightmares of making ice in places like Tampa/Dallas/Nashville where the humidity and temperature combine to make temps feel over 100F well into late August.

The World Cup will be just fine moving forward. They have already stated that previous to the next one there will be a qualifier tournament of all these countries that so many are arguing need to have a chance to be there. (no idea why anyone thinks that way however) Germany/Switzerland/Denmark etc will all have their opportunities to join the fun.

The single biggest problem with this past iteration of the WC was nothing more than Canada never being threatened by anyone. It was complete domination much like the last Olys. There was no drama involved as Canada was going to roll to a win from day 1...and then proceeded to do so. Nothing would have changed that.

[Itse]

Yeah, I've always found it weird that the NHL season starts so late. In Finland and Sweden the leagues start mid-August. Not that the starting date matters as such, but it's always felt wrong somehow that the finals are played in June.

(This opinion has nothing to do with World Championships / World Cup btw, just a general note on the NHL season.)

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by transplant99

All tournaments are "made up" in that case.

And no, the World Championships are not the World Cup...never have been and never will be.

Its ridiculous to suggest that NHL change it's schedule to accomodate that tournament....maybe if they want the best players the IIHF should be the ones to adjust when its played?

As for asking the NHL to play in late August? Horrible idea. Even the NFL doesnt start til September and thats because people are doing different things while the sun is still shining warm and particularly in cold weather areas. Nevermind the nightmares of making ice in places like Tampa/Dallas/Nashville where the humidity and temperature combine to make temps feel over 100F well into late August.

The World Cup will be just fine moving forward. They have already stated that previous to the next one there will be a qualifier tournament of all these countries that so many are arguing need to have a chance to be there. (no idea why anyone thinks that way however) Germany/Switzerland/Denmark etc will all have their opportunities to join the fun.

The single biggest problem with this past iteration of the WC was nothing more than Canada never being threatened by anyone. It was complete domination much like the last Olys. There was no drama involved as Canada was going to roll to a win from day 1...and then proceeded to do so. Nothing would have changed that.

We'll see. I'll believe it when I see it.

Canada dominating is never a problem

[Coach]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The single biggest problem with this past iteration of the WC was nothing more than Canada never being threatened by anyone. It was complete domination much like the last Olys. There was no drama involved as Canada was going to roll to a win from day 1...and then proceeded to do so. Nothing would have changed that.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Canada was the favorite, of course. But Sweden, Russia and USA all could have been able to beat them. It would have been hard, but the talent existed on those teams to have a better tournament than they did.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Itse

Yeah, I've always found it weird that the NHL season starts so late. In Finland and Sweden the leagues start mid-August. Not that the starting date matters as such, but it's always felt wrong somehow that the finals are played in June.

(This opinion has nothing to do with World Championships / World Cup btw, just a general note on the NHL season.)

I've always wondered if it's because they try to get as far away from the NFL as possible. I can't imagine that the NHL does too well in the US ratings-wise on any night when is NFL on.