Jay Bouwmeester

[TKB]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

Everyone got a clean slate to start the year.

Hartley said he wanted Feaster to keep Bouwmeester on to team so he can work with him. The season is young and while based on past performance it does not look good, there is still time for him to turn it around.

If Hartley can't get Bouwmeester to turn it around then I suspect Bouwmeester will be jettisoned come trade deadline or in the off-season.

With the cap hit Bouwmeester sports I have a hard time believing any team would trade for him. Hes a prime suspect for a buyout if he doesn't turn things around.

[Flamesguy_SJ]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

As someone who has tried to defend J-Bo at least some of the time, answer me this; who has come up small for this team more frequently than Jay Bouwmeester?

Name me five great Jay Bouwmeester moments. Name me three. Name one.

The only two that come to mind for me are: 1) the preseason game against the Islanders in 2009 when Bouw and Phaneuf were the two defencemen on the ice and just put on a clinic as far as puck movement goes, and 2) the game after the 2010 Olympic team was announced he pretty much completely dominated.

Other than those two, I'm at a loss.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by TKB

With the cap hit Bouwmeester sports I have a hard time believing any team would trade for him. Hes a prime suspect for a buyout if he doesn't turn things around.

I wouldn't go that far. Any team with excess offense, and very little on the backend, would probably be happy to pick him up for the playoffs and then keep him on the books for next year. He probably could net a decent second line player or prospects. However, the Flames are going to have to chip in to cover some of his contract if he ends up going to a small-market team.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

Yep no thread on Gio and he has been beyond brutal for how long? A long time. He needs to go back to 2nd pairing. Butler is useless and should be bottom pairing. Smith was where he should be last night. Sarich is a solid 3rd pairing guy. Brodie at max is a 2nd pairing guy. Wideman is a guy you most certainly do not want on the ice too often except on the PP.

It's a crappy group and one that REALLY needs the forwards to come back and help.

I was going to mention something like this.

Bouwmeester has hardly been the ideal UFA signing since we got him, but the last two years, I struggle to think of many of the defence have earned their salary (Brodie, Hannan, and Smith come to mind...but two of the three also played really light and easy minutes. The last one looked like garbage by the end of last year). Giordano isn't hitting as hard, is getting beat out of the corners more often (and it's not a strength thing either. He used to be able to hold his own), is making bad shots, and definitely isn't the same player we all fell in love with when he came back from Russia (which I'm not entirely unconvinced was a contractual thing...that this is where we should expect Giordano to play. I mentioned this in the GT last night, but that hard working ball of energy we saw could have been just to get a good contract and this is more his regular level). Butler is in no man's land right now, where I can't fault him heavily because of the fact that he routinely gets stuck on the first pairing, a level he's obviously not suited to play (while there's statistically insignificant game count of him being on anything lower in a Flames jersey), Sarich is still slow and is still being sheltered in minutes, and Wideman is a bit of an adventure handling the puck 5 on 5. And he's looking good compared to the rest of the team.

It's not just Bouwmeester at this early point in the season - it's a systemic issue. Too many back end players are getting too much money for what they're returning. At this point, one may consider having to begin a firesale on the team because there just isn't any defensive depth to go along with the at least somewhat promising forwards and lotto tickets that are the goaltending prospects. I can see why people want to target Bouwmeester - he's the most expensive and therefore should carry the team. It just seems strange that he's the only guy being singled out.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

Everyone got a clean slate to start the year.

Hartley said he wanted Feaster to keep Bouwmeester on to team so he can work with him. The season is young and while based on past performance it does not look good, there is still time for him to turn it around.

If Hartley can't get Bouwmeester to turn it around then I suspect Bouwmeester will be jettisoned come trade deadline or in the off-season.

I agree if he does not turn it around he will be traded in the off-season, but what would they get for him? My take before was that other teams probably felt that under a new coach and new system he would flourish. Well he has been given a new caoch and a new system and looks the same.

[C-COOP]

Another issue is that it feels like Bouweester's "give a crap meter" is at zero. But I think that is more of a personality thing - just comes across bad to fans IMO.

I am hoping he can turn this around during the season.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I agree if he does not turn it around he will be traded in the off-season, but what would they get for him? My take before was that other teams probably felt that under a new coach and new system he would flourish. Well he has been given a new caoch and a new system and looks the same.

To be fair though almost everyone, save Backlund, look the same so far. If we are going to close the book on him and the "new system" after 2 games, I think the fate of the entire team is sealed.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

If you rearrange the letters in his name it spells "you fools I am born son of mephistopheles", if you include his middle names.

Quoted for obscurity.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

Yep no thread on Gio and he has been beyond brutal for how long? A long time. He needs to go back to 2nd pairing. Butler is useless and should be bottom pairing. Smith was where he should be last night. Sarich is a solid 3rd pairing guy. Brodie at max is a 2nd pairing guy. Wideman is a guy you most certainly do not want on the ice too often except on the PP.

It's a crappy group and one that REALLY needs the forwards to come back and help.

I agree Gio has been awful and he was the key to not having a Butler- Bouw pairing. Hartely needs to keep playing Gio and Bouw until Gio gets out of his funk. I think its the only way this D has a chance. Forwards have to come back also. Tanguay playing center is not helping. He is lost on the defensive side of the game.

If playing like they should pairings should be

Bouw-Gio
Wideman-Brodie
Butler-Sarich

I was really hoping Gio would fit with Bouw and Smith would come out and take the last pairing. Even though Butler is hated on cp ( not by me), with his cheap contract and playing experience i think we could get something worth while in trade.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by kirant

To be fair though almost everyone, save Backlund, look the same so far. If we are going to close the book on him and the "new system" after 2 games, I think the fate of the entire team is sealed.

Stempniak looks better. Tangs and Cammi don't look good but they are playing new positions. Horak and Stajan have looked better.

[ComixZone]

Bouwmeester post-game talking about "everyone running around, just need to do your own job"...talk into a mirror Mr. Can't win a battle in front of the net.

[bubbsy]

is it me or does anyone else want to throw the remote at the TV when Kerr or any other pbp guy mentions bouwmeester's iron-man streak.

Sounds like wings are already in injury trouble on the backend. Please God, let them probe about bouwmeester, and please God, give Feaster the wisdom to adhere to their request.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by TKB

Agree, If anyone watched Wideman with previous teams they would of known he was all kind of bad in the defensive zone. Hes a PP specialist who should be on the third pairing.

Bologna. He is just fine defensively and had some great defensive plays last night and plays solid, not great but solid. Better than Bouwmeester that's forsure.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

is it me or does anyone else want to throw the remote at the TV when Kerr or any other pbp guy mentions bouwmeester's iron-man streak.

Sounds like wings are already in injury trouble on the backend. Please God, let them probe about bouwmeester, and please God, give Feaster the wisdom to adhere to their request.

I think they just signed Huskins. Not that he is the answer.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I agree Gio has been awful and he was the key to not having a Butler- Bouw pairing. Hartely needs to keep playing Gio and Bouw until Gio gets out of his funk. I think its the only way this D has a chance. Forwards have to come back also. Tanguay playing center is not helping. He is lost on the defensive side of the game.

If playing like they should pairings should be

Bouw-Gio
Wideman-Brodie
Butler-Sarich

I was really hoping Gio would fit with Bouw and Smith would come out and take the last pairing. Even though Butler is hated on cp ( not by me), with his cheap contract and playing experience i think we could get something worth while in trade.

What is sad is what you get from this one dimensional group.

Bouw can skate and is good positionally but won't hit and compete.
Gio used to hit but no longer does and used to make up for things with hustle.
Wideman is an offensive dman.
Brodie is another offensive dman with limited defensive talent.
Sarich is steady but slow and old.
Butler is very limited.

If Gio can't handle the 1st pairing then who on earth can? If Hartley is going to tell JBow to join the rush the other guy better be a defensive stalwart.

This team is so lopsided. So soft. No strength down the middle at all. So many guys on the backend and up front who are small./soft and who are in the league based on their offensive skill.

It looks like they are going to have to play like they did in the 1st period of the 1st game all the time to win. They might as well just set JBow, Gio, Wideman and Brodie free. Join the offense. Outscore the other team.

[868904]

Originally Posted by TKB

With the cap hit Bouwmeester sports I have a hard time believing any team would trade for him. Hes a prime suspect for a buyout if he doesn't turn things around.

Same could be said for Luongo, but there are apparently many suitors.......or so says Gillis.

Luongo is a better player, but his contract is ridiculous. Bouwmeester's contract is high for another year or two, but then he's UFA, much lower risk.

[868904]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

What is sad is what you get from this one dimensional group.

Bouw can skate and is good positionally but won't hit and compete.
Gio used to hit but no longer does and used to make up for things with hustle.
Wideman is an offensive dman.
Brodie is another offensive dman with limited defensive talent.
Sarich is steady but slow and old.
Butler is very limited.

If Gio can't handle the 1st pairing then who on earth can? If Hartley is going to tell JBow to join the rush the other guy better be a defensive stalwart.

This team is so lopsided. So soft. No strength down the middle at all. So many guys on the backend and up front who are small./soft and who are in the league based on their offensive skill.

It looks like they are going to have to play like they did in the 1st period of the 1st game all the time to win. They might as well just set JBow, Gio, Wideman and Brodie free. Join the offense. Outscore the other team.

I think you are exaggerating how bad the Flames defence is. You can go down the list of every NHL defence core and point out flaws in each player. No team has 6 Niklas Lidstroms'.

I think with the exception of Bouwmeester, the rest of the defence core is fine. I want to see Bouwmeester gone and his minutes replaced by Brodie. Having watched a lot of Heat games this year and his play last year in the NHL, I really don't see that being a downgrade at all.

[Komskies]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Stempniak looks better. Tangs and Cammi don't look good but they are playing new positions. Horak and Stajan have looked better.

Better than what? A pile of dog crap? He must be playing like a mountain of dog crap this season.

[you got PHANUEFED]

Wow the haters have come out in full force what this team needs to do is send Iggy packin he's lookin old he wont even drive up the middle he carries the puck to out side every time and then stops to dump it off he's no longer a threat on the ice so his contract is starting to look like an over payment aswell.

[FlamesAddiction]

I noticed that Bouwmeester is 3rd on the team for ice-time among defensemen so far in the 1st two games.

The spread between the top 4 is very minimal though. Does anyone know if it is Hartley's style to not have a workhorse defenseman, or is this an indication of what he thinks of our top 4?

I am so used to having at least one big minute defenseman.

(You pay $6.7 million and you should expect that much)