de Grood to be transferred to hospital for assessment

[powderjunkie]

It's hard to imagine myself in his shoes, but I would absolutely want some safety nets for myself if I had the opportunity to reintegrate into the world.

[puckedoff]

So if you awoke one day, and your options are kill yourself to make sure no one else gets hurt or take your monthly anti-psychotic injection to accomplish the same, your are choosing door number 1?

Like I get where you are coming from and I'm sure it has crossed his mind, but you have to remember he didn't choose to do any of that and the outcome, while horrific was not really in his control or his fault.

The review board will have input from all his psychologists and nurses etc. and they will make the right choice, if a medicated de Grood is deemed safe to live in society then why shouldn't he.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

So if you awoke one day, and your options are kill yourself to make sure no one else gets hurt or take your monthly anti-psychotic injection to accomplish the same, your are choosing door number 1?

Like I get where you are coming from and I'm sure it has crossed his mind, but you have to remember he didn't choose to do any of that and the outcome, while horrific was not really in his control or his fault.

The review board will have input from all his psychologists and nurses etc. and they will make the right choice, if a medicated de Grood is deemed safe to live in society then why shouldn't he.

for starters, he wants an absolute discharge, which means NO conditions.
I sure as heck wouldn't trust he continues to take his medications on his own.

plus he didn't even qualify for a conditional discharge as recently as 2021.
"Crown prosecutor Matthew Griener said the board considered a conditional discharge but dismissed it, citing a relapse in schizophrenia symptoms in 2021."

If he's relapsing in the hospital, I sure as #### don't want him free in public without conditions.

I've seen to many mentally ill people decide to quit taking medications over the years to trust someone not to relapse, especially when they've already killed multiple people. This time the good of society should be put ahead of what the individual wants.

[Sliver]

I'm not even talking about the legalities of things. I'm just talking about de Grood, as an individual, doing the right thing. End yourself, man. You ####ed up too huge to carry on and, frankly, don't deserve to regardless of the ins and outs of medical and judicial recommendations.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not even talking about the legalities of things. I'm just talking about de Grood, as an individual, doing the right thing. End yourself, man. You ####ed up too huge to carry on and, frankly, don't deserve to regardless of the ins and outs of medical and judicial recommendations.

What is the kill limit for allowing re-integration? Is there no limit? If Hitler claimed to have schizophrenia (godwin) today, and he did a few years painting and rehabilitating, should he get gradually be re-introduced into society. Hell I think Hitler would be less of a risk then this kid.

I think you get one or (maybe) two freebie murders, after that you are sent to the land of misfit toys. Sorry thems the rules.

If we are playing UNO and I slap down a pick 4 card, we don't negotiate 2 or none. Sorry dude, our collective welfare trumps your rights in this case. Its like gun control.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

...if a medicated de Grood is deemed safe to live in society then why shouldn't he.

Because he has murdered five people, psychotic or not. That's a great and only reason to have him locked up for life.

I recall similar discussion here with a few usual ones advocating for Jasmine Richardson who helped her boyfriend brutally murder her parents and a little brother while they were all asleep. Not only she was released into the community after serving a short 4-yr stay at the psychiatric hospital, but the taxpayers have funded her extensive education thereafter. Why not, right. She deserved a normal life after all.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Because he has murdered five people, psychotic or not. That's a great and only reason to have him locked up for life.

I recall similar discussion here with a few usual ones advocating for Jasmine Richardson who helped her boyfriend brutally murder her parents and a little brother while they were all asleep. Not only she was released into the community after serving a short 4-yr stay at the psychiatric hospital, but the taxpayers have funded her extensive education thereafter. Why not, right. She deserved a normal life after all.

This one is a good one.

Convicted and served time for a 2009 murder.

Killed some random old lady and lit her body on fire and left her just off Deerfoot Trail

But think of the treasures he gave society in the time from being released and the next one.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/charges-l....m.%20on%20Feb.

His mental illness may explain it but it shouldn't justify the release?

If you are born with no arms, it explains why you are a terrible pitcher, doesn't mean you should be a pitcher. You are excluded from pitching unfortunately.

[Locke]

Unconditional Discharge is a bad idea and they know it.

Reading from an expert's report, Feehan said: "A low risk to offend doesn't mean the reoffence would not be severe."

It doesnt take much. One day he forgets his meds, thought he already took them or, more commonly with Schizophrenics:

"I'm feeling GREAT! I dont need these anymore!"

All it takes is one bad day and there will be more bodies on the floor.

[Yeah_Baby]

Content Warning Self Harm

NSFW!

FWIW I've literally started planning to kms after I misread someone's signals of them touching my arm and entered their personal space on a date.

This is kinda ####ty because real people and real emotions are involved, but it's an interesting academic thought study for our approach to forced confinement of the mentally ill and the prison system. Is the goal of Prison etc Rehabilitation? Thus making someone who for all intents and purposes is 'better' having served their time removed from society? Is this what the systems as it is for? Or is it to keep folks incarcerated for all time, with no chance of rehabilitation. Is there an avenue for restorative justice? Again lots of questions I don't have answers to. It's none of my business but wonder how when he's mediated de Grood feels about what he did.

[Yeah_Baby]

nm

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not even talking about the legalities of things. I'm just talking about de Grood, as an individual, doing the right thing. End yourself, man. You ####ed up too huge to carry on and, frankly, don't deserve to regardless of the ins and outs of medical and judicial recommendations.

I am unfortunately close to a similar situation as this, and I have had this same thought plenty of times. Still though, I had a visceral reaction reading your post. Not that you said it… it’s just… a situation so ####ed that there’s no winning. There’s no justice to be had. Moving on from something like this is already impossible, and this situation is so public that those still affected by it are hammered with it in public constantly.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Bless those family members who go through this #### every year.

You can’t let someone who’s be totally free to go whose incurable, untreated condition has this outcome. That would be insane.

This sums it up for me. I’m not for locking people up forever without ever revisiting that… but a forever restriction would be a good compensating measure for punishments handed out under mental health rulings.

[Sliver]

I'm not into locking somebody up forever, either, and his mental health is a huge mitigating factor in culpability. I would think now that he's medicated he could reflect more on the events and how it must be impacting the victims' families as well as his own. That's why I believe it would be an honourable ending for him to do the maximum thing possible for atonement and compassion to everyone he has hurt. Go away permanently. While not his fault due to his schizophrenia, it's certainly more his fault than anybody else's, obviously.

I don't think the justice system should kill him. I don't know if he should be locked up forever. I do believe the mental health professionals job is to tell us if he is a risk to re-offend and we should accept their recommendations as part of determining his future. But that's all we can do.

de Grood has the ability to circumvent all of the uncertainty and how uneasy he's making a couple million people by ending his own life. It's what I'd do in his shoes.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Because he has murdered five people, psychotic or not. That's a great and only reason to have him locked up for life.

I recall similar discussion here with a few usual ones advocating for Jasmine Richardson who helped her boyfriend brutally murder her parents and a little brother while they were all asleep. Not only she was released into the community after serving a short 4-yr stay at the psychiatric hospital, but the taxpayers have funded her extensive education thereafter. Why not, right. She deserved a normal life after all.

Not commenting on whether this was correct or not, but Richardson was given a 10 year sentence, which is the maximum anyone under 14 can get. She served all 10 years. 4 years of that detainment was to take place at a psychiatric institution and 4.5 years of conditional supervision in the community. Her sentence had nothing to do with psychiatric conditions and everything to do with her age.

A different issue that De Groot, as Richardson was only 13 when she committed the murders. Richardson's accomplice, who was 23, was sentenced to 3 concurrent life sentences and is eligible for parole after 25 years, but he probably won't get it for many years after, if he does at all.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Content Warning Self Harm

NSFW!

FWIW I've literally started planning to kms after I misread someone's signals of them touching my arm and entered their personal space on a date.

This is kinda ####ty because real people and real emotions are involved, but it's an interesting academic thought study for our approach to forced confinement of the mentally ill and the prison system. Is the goal of Prison etc Rehabilitation? Thus making someone who for all intents and purposes is 'better' having served their time removed from society? Is this what the systems as it is for? Or is it to keep folks incarcerated for all time, with no chance of rehabilitation. Is there an avenue for restorative justice? Again lots of questions I don't have answers to. It's none of my business but wonder how when he's mediated de Grood feels about what he did.

This is sort of the problem with mental health...its 'barely' a science. Everyone's mental heath and mental problems are different.

And I think this is the crux of the matter with de Grood here. When he's doing well, he might be perfectly fine.

But if the switch flips on that one bad day the consequences will be disastrous.

How much are you, is society, willing to risk? Willing to bet, that that 'one bad day' will never come?

Because innocent lives are literally on the line.

I'm not into Draconian Sentencing Laws or locking people up forever, but on occasion I am willing to consider exceptions based on a risk analysis.

Maybe he should be freed one day...but only under seriously heavy supervision and then...is that worth it?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not into locking somebody up forever, either, and his mental health is a huge mitigating factor in culpability. I would think now that he's medicated he could reflect more on the events and how it must be impacting the victims' families as well as his own. That's why I believe it would be an honourable ending for him to do the maximum thing possible for atonement and compassion to everyone he has hurt. Go away permanently. While not his fault due to his schizophrenia, it's certainly more his fault than anybody else's, obviously.

I don't think the justice system should kill him. I don't know if he should be locked up forever. I do believe the mental health professionals job is to tell us if he is a risk to re-offend and we should accept their recommendations as part of determining his future. But that's all we can do.

de Grood has the ability to circumvent all of the uncertainty and how uneasy he's making a couple million people by ending his own life. It's what I'd do in his shoes.

I’d make sure I at least had required medical check ins, and medication, for life. And I wouldn’t fight it. I’d ensure I had it. I can’t understand an alternative viewpoint to that, so I don’t exactly trust individuals who fight it.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not into locking somebody up forever, either, and his mental health is a huge mitigating factor in culpability. I would think now that he's medicated he could reflect more on the events and how it must be impacting the victims' families as well as his own. That's why I believe it would be an honourable ending for him to do the maximum thing possible for atonement and compassion to everyone he has hurt. Go away permanently. While not his fault due to his schizophrenia, it's certainly more his fault than anybody else's, obviously.

I don't think the justice system should kill him. I don't know if he should be locked up forever. I do believe the mental health professionals job is to tell us if he is a risk to re-offend and we should accept their recommendations as part of determining his future. But that's all we can do.

de Grood has the ability to circumvent all of the uncertainty and how uneasy he's making a couple million people by ending his own life. It's what I'd do in his shoes.

If de Grood has come to terms with his actions and how they got to that, I believe he should be afforded some freedom that includes regular reporting to his doctor to make sure he's taking his meds. Not a full discharge but a graduated level of progress where he shows that he understands why he can never stop taking his meds.

On the other hand there are those in society that would settle for nothing less than de Grood being locked up forever. Even then their thirst for revenge would not be satisfied.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Dion

If de Grood has come to terms with his actions and how they got to that, I believe he should be afforded some freedom that includes regular reporting to his doctor to make sure he's taking his meds. Not a full discharge but a graduated level of progress where he shows that he understands why he can never stop taking his meds.

On the other hand there are those in society that would settle for nothing less than de Grood being locked up forever. Even then their thirst for revenge would not be satisfied.

Count me in as one of them, 5 kids murdered, 5 family's torn apart and 100's of friends affected. lets face facts, every mass murderer has some kind of screw loose and not one of them should ever be free to walk among society again.

I think that people can switch on a dime. Brain chemistry fluctuates rapidly and randomly and sometimes you have zero control. I personally have gone through this before, not to the point of killing people, but I’ve had some scary episodes. I cam empathize with a medical condition, but you can’t ignore historical examples of someones behaviors.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Dion

If de Grood has come to terms with his actions and how they got to that, I believe he should be afforded some freedom that includes regular reporting to his doctor to make sure he's taking his meds. Not a full discharge but a graduated level of progress where he shows that he understands why he can never stop taking his meds.

On the other hand there are those in society that would settle for nothing less than de Grood being locked up forever. Even then their thirst for revenge would not be satisfied.

And I could accept "some" freedoms, but he's fighting for an absolute discharge and I have a big problem with that.



from this article.
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-m...rtment%20said.

Matthew de Grood has applied to the Alberta Court of Appeal for an absolute discharge.

According to the Government of Canada, that means the court would find him discharged of the offences with no conviction registered.

"Conditional or absolute discharges may only be ordered for less serious offences," the justice department said.
If granted, the discharge would have no conditions.

this is bull#### and no way in hell a sick person who killed 5 people who could very well relapse (and has), should get a freaking discharge.