The Twins lost pretty much a full rotation of starting pitching and iirc haven't added anything of note. How could the Jays be worse than that? They're pretty much coming back the same as last year and they were a decent team last year. There are some teams that will be worse next year (Twins and Angels both come to mind).
It's crazy to me how harsh people are with the Jays.
The still have all their pitching from last season (minus Hicks), and shored up the D to help the pitching remain top 5ish in the league.
The offense was mid tier league wide last season thanks to some major underperformance from key players. If even just one or two of the four culprits (Vlad, Kirk, Springer, Varsho) bounce back the offense is still mid tier to maybe top ten or so.
This is assuming they add a competent DH that can replace Belt.
The Twins lost pretty much a full rotation of starting pitching and iirc haven't added anything of note. How could the Jays be worse than that? They're pretty much coming back the same as last year and they were a decent team last year. There are some teams that will be worse next year (Twins and Angels both come to mind).
Agreed. Plus the free agency market is not great so why make a dumb singing just for the sake of making a splash. The Jays can still make a trade or two to shore things up.
Implode? In the playoffs? They are probably going to win 110 games next year.
Oh I agree. I’m just hoping for some blisters, hangnails and hip flexors for them to fall flat. To me their team should get closer to 115 on paper. Anything under 100 will be not living up to expectations. I still don’t like that they outspent everyone.
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Dodgers are taking everything I wanted for the Jays. Boo.
I'd have taken Teo at that number. No such thing as a bad 1 year deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
It's crazy to me how harsh people are with the Jays.
The still have all their pitching from last season (minus Hicks), and shored up the D to help the pitching remain top 5ish in the league.
The offense was mid tier league wide last season thanks to some major underperformance from key players. If even just one or two of the four culprits (Vlad, Kirk, Springer, Varsho) bounce back the offense is still mid tier to maybe top ten or so.
This is assuming they add a competent DH that can replace Belt.
See here's the thing (In reverse order)...
I'm sure the Jays can get a competent DH to replace belt. There are plenty of competent mid-tier sluggers to be had.
What you said is true all other things being equal if one or two of the four major underperformers bounce back then yeah the the jays offense would get a significant bump... but here's the thing... that assumes that all other things are equal. Bichette hit really well last year, Schneider entered the cheat code for "God Mode" when he came up, Chapman didn't hit well but he hit better then I'd project the hodgepog of talent that will presumably be taking his At-bats. We can't assume that some guys will have a bounceback and that other guys won't have down years.
Yes, Pitching should be really good again... but I'm skeptical that it will be as healthy as it was. Depth beyond the presumptive MLB roster is weak still. Sure would be nice if Tiedeman could have good health and build up some innings because we're gonna need him next year.
To be clear I don't think the Jays will be a bad team... I just don't think they've improved (if anything they've gotten marginally worse on paper) and given their window the Jays should be getting better on paper not running in place.
When healthy (he’s not generally been healthy most seasons), he’s got the pop that the team really needs but he’s a guy that really needs to DH 99% of the time because, from what I can tell, he makes Teo look like a Gold Glove candidate. Thankfully they have a really strong OF defensively who can hopefully minimize the amount of damage he can do out there.
He’ll be 32 by spring training.
He seems like Teo but worse in just about every way. If the Jays weren’t willing to give Teo a long term deal (or even a short term one), I don’t see why they should offer Soler one.
Dodgers are taking everything I wanted for the Jays. Boo.
I'd have taken Teo at that number. No such thing as a bad 1 year deal.
See here's the thing (In reverse order)...
I'm sure the Jays can get a competent DH to replace belt. There are plenty of competent mid-tier sluggers to be had.
What you said is true all other things being equal if one or two of the four major underperformers bounce back then yeah the the jays offense would get a significant bump... but here's the thing... that assumes that all other things are equal. Bichette hit really well last year, Schneider entered the cheat code for "God Mode" when he came up, Chapman didn't hit well but he hit better then I'd project the hodgepog of talent that will presumably be taking his At-bats. We can't assume that some guys will have a bounceback and that other guys won't have down years.
Yes, Pitching should be really good again... but I'm skeptical that it will be as healthy as it was. Depth beyond the presumptive MLB roster is weak still. Sure would be nice if Tiedeman could have good health and build up some innings because we're gonna need him next year.
To be clear I don't think the Jays will be a bad team... I just don't think they've improved (if anything they've gotten marginally worse on paper) and given their window the Jays should be getting better on paper not running in place.
Yeah that's all fair. Sometimes though, just running in place is the best option rather than making moves that have too much risk and can cripple you long term, just so you can say that you did something.
Even if they don't make any more "big" moves they will still have a competitive team, will have another year to continue building the farm system back up, but won't have taken on any big money deals that might limit what they can do in the future.
Maybe next year they will be able to take a run at Bregman, or Soto and will have the financial flexibility to do so because they didn't give $150 million to Chapman or $200 million to Bellinger. Or maybe some prospect will have a break out year and have taken over one of those spots at 3B or LF for a fraction of the cost.
When healthy (he’s not generally been healthy most seasons), he’s got the pop that the team really needs but he’s a guy that really needs to DH 99% of the time because, from what I can tell, he makes Teo look like a Gold Glove candidate. Thankfully they have a really strong OF defensively who can hopefully minimize the amount of damage he can do out there.
He’ll be 32 by spring training.
He seems like Teo but worse in just about every way. If the Jays weren’t willing to give Teo a long term deal (or even a short term one), I don’t see why they should offer Soler one.
Yeah the Teo deal gives me hope that Soler can be had for cheaper on a 1 year deal now. He definitely has the power the Jays need, and also mashes left handed pitching which the Jays sucked at. Just don't want the Jays to commit more than two years to a guy like that. Could be Kendrys Morales V2.0
I’m glad that as much as we all disagree on a lot of things, we all agree that bad contracts are to be avoided. If they do one of those now, just give them an F grade and can them.
It's crazy to me how harsh people are with the Jays.
The still have all their pitching from last season (minus Hicks), and shored up the D to help the pitching remain top 5ish in the league.
The offense was mid tier league wide last season thanks to some major underperformance from key players. If even just one or two of the four culprits (Vlad, Kirk, Springer, Varsho) bounce back the offense is still mid tier to maybe top ten or so.
This is assuming they add a competent DH that can replace Belt.
Sure, however Jays if any thing at this point in the offseason
Their offense is not as good as last season.
They obviously are still missing a DH
Gone, Chapman, Belt and Merrifield.
Added, Isiah Kiner-Falefa
Jays have had a really poor offseason so far, really nothing has been done to improve their club
Personally I would have thought they would have added power
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Still a couple big fish out there but I don't really see the Jays landing any of them at this point. I think there's still an opportunity for a trade. There have been some of the annual rumblings about Jose Ramirez recently. But we know where that's going. Honestly. Just bring in Votto at this point. Will be worth it for the interviews alone. And who knows, the dude still hit a bunch of bombs a couple years ago and still has pop. Maybe he just becomes this decades Matt Stairs.
Aside from his interviews, what good is Votto at this point, as a player? Seriously, last two seasons hitting .205. The team doesn't need a wasted spot. The floor of the starting lineup has to be raised, and that has to be done through a trade at this point. With money left, and this year being a good pitcher market, I don't see why they can't sign Hicks or another fireball reliever. Again, I don't mind foregoing the terrible contracts other teams may engage in, but they have to improve somewhere for the sake of hope. I know Rogers isn't cheap, so it's not on them. If they have doubts about Atkins, I can see why they may not be giving him the budget, but he's gotta sell them on at least strengthening their best part while also giving them future trade bait.
Still a couple big fish out there but I don't really see the Jays landing any of them at this point. I think there's still an opportunity for a trade. There have been some of the annual rumblings about Jose Ramirez recently. But we know where that's going. Honestly. Just bring in Votto at this point. Will be worth it for the interviews alone. And who knows, the dude still hit a bunch of bombs a couple years ago and still has pop. Maybe he just becomes this decades Matt Stairs.
I think Votto is probably cooked. If they brought in Votto it'd just be fan service (bring in the local boy who used to be a big star).. I'd really like a RH slugger who could play a corner outfield and not be a pylon... someone who can sub in for Kiermaier/Varsho against lefties on occasion.
Yes any bringing in of Votto is for Jays is simply to try and get a PR win and to placate some casual fans this offseason with some maple syrup. It's not a great idea but can't imagine many season ticket holder who are paying 30%+ more for their 100 level seats post renovation, are thrilled with that offseason, so I think the Jays have to do something to give the offseason a pop.
Can he still hit? Probably, but not daily and not any better then any number of other options out there at DH.
I loved Matt Stairs. His last few years in the league he was the most clutch pinch hitter, almost legendary stats, and was just an all around great dude. Another Canadian legend to boot. That's why I drew the comparison. Votto likely isn't an everyday player anymore. But you cant argue the value that an old vet coming off the bench to hit bombs can have.
