[Rumour] Friedman: Hanifin headed to market; Markstrom waiting

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I mean I get it he’s easy to dislike and has no personality but common.

He’s the best offensive player we have probably seen. I don’t think winning is part of the talent package.

I think we are talking purely talent here.

I feel disgusted having to defend an Oiler player.

McDavid's best offensive season isn't anywhere close to Gretzky even after adjusting for eras.

McDavid: 153 points during a season where the average team scored 3.18 goals/game

Gretzky: 215 points during a season where the average team scored 3.97 goals/game.

Oh, and McDavid got two bonus games since the schedule expanded.

[1qqaaz]

And McDavid is playing against a much more diluted talent pool. When Gretzky played, there was half as many teams in the league.

Even strength performance is another big factor to consider.

I don't think McDavid should be anywhere near the Mount Rushmore of hockey. Guys like Orr, Lemieux and Howe are also way ahead.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by butterfly

McDavid's best offensive season isn't anywhere close to Gretzky even after adjusting for eras.

McDavid: 153 points during a season where the average team scored 3.18 goals/game

Gretzky: 215 points during a season where the average team scored 3.97 goals/game.

Oh, and McDavid got two bonus games since the schedule expanded.

How many goalies are there in today’s game that are under 6’0”? Hell, how many are under 6’3”?

I’ve met Vernon on a number of occasions. I’m 5’9” and I’ve got 2” on him, at least.

[Harry Lime]

Personally, I was most impressed by ovechkin when he committed to learning the defensive side Halfway into his career. It put him into conversations that he wasn't party to before. If McDavid expands his abilities in the same way, I'll be more impressed.

Full game commitment is why Mario is shoulder to shoulder with Gretzky in some minds, he was just a more rounded player.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by TOfan

How many goalies are there in today’s game that are under 6’0”? Hell, how many are under 6’3”?

I’ve met Vernon on a number of occasions. I’m 5’9” and I’ve got 2” on him, at least.

But his era-adjusted scoring rates already account for the inferior goaltending.

The 80s had higher scoring, partially because the goaltenders were smaller. Despite this, Gretzky scored a lot more in his era than McDavid is doing in his era.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

And McDavid is playing against a much more diluted talent pool. When Gretzky played, there was half as many teams in the league.

Even strength performance is another big factor to consider.

I don't think McDavid should be anywhere near the Mount Rushmore of hockey. Guys like Orr, Lemieux and Howe are also way ahead.

To counter that point, consider the following.

Goaltending back then was a joke compared to now. Fitness and general athleticism is much, much better now, and that's especially important if you're checking and defending.

But also, there are tighter restrictions on interference, slashing, hooking, holding etc. that hinder offensive players compared to Gretzky's era.

There are pros and cons to each era, but talent is talent, and you have to admit it when you see it. McDavid is supremely talented. If he wins a championship or two, you'll have to put him up there with the greatest of all time (yuck).

[Locke]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

And McDavid is playing against a much more diluted talent pool. When Gretzky played, there was half as many teams in the league.

Even strength performance is another big factor to consider.

I don't think McDavid should be anywhere near the Mount Rushmore of hockey. Guys like Orr, Lemieux and Howe are also way ahead.

Sure...but most of those guys werent what we'd modernly consider 'Professionals.'

Most of the goalies were tiny and wearing antique Roman Armour just hoping the puck would hit them, defensemen could hardly skate especially after chugging a six-pack between periods.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by TOfan

How many goalies are there in today’s game that are under 6’0”? Hell, how many are under 6’3”?

I’ve met Vernon on a number of occasions. I’m 5’9” and I’ve got 2” on him, at least.

I have no clue. Maybe goaltenders are taller. Maybe all positions are taller.

What I do know is that average teams are scoring 80% of what was being scored in 1985-86, but McDavid is scoring 71% of Gretzky. He's not the best offensive player ever to be seen.

[robertsfanatic]

came in for Hanifin and Markstrom news and walked into the McDavid appreciation thread...yeesh

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think people may be misunderstanding.

Just speaking strictly from a talent perspective. Not leadership, winning, or cups. Not defensive awareness or anything. Just as a pure offensive player.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

And McDavid is playing against a much more diluted talent pool. When Gretzky played, there was half as many teams in the league.

Even strength performance is another big factor to consider.

I don't think McDavid should be anywhere near the Mount Rushmore of hockey. Guys like Orr, Lemieux and Howe are also way ahead.

Not sure I buy the argument that McDavid is playing against a much more diluted talent pool.

How many people do you think were playing hockey in the 1970’s to the 90’s? I’d bet there are substantially more now. Factor in the growth the sport has seen south of the border, ironically due to Gretzky’s influence, and I’d bet it’s not close. Then add on everything contemporary science has taught us about performance (nutrition, sleep, training, longevity, equipment). Gretzky himself has been saying for quite a while today’s player is better than it was when he played.

In Gretzky’s heyday, there were probably 2-3 guys in the league who could shoot it 100mph. There might be 2-3 guys on every team in the league now that can do that.

[Zulu29]

Thread bump…Oiler circle jerk is over, Hanifin is headed to market. Discuss.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Thread bump…Oiler circle jerk is over, Hanifin is headed to market. Discuss.

He should buy California oranges. They are in season.

[jg13]

Tampa has allowed 13GA in their last 2 games. Have to imagine they're looking at both Hanifin/Tanev as options.

They've proven time and time again they're willing to pay big at the deadline

[Paulie Walnuts]

Carolina has to be serious as well for Markstrom. They have some terrible goaltending and a team that’s ready to take a step.

Carolina is a funny trade partner for Markstrom. I see they have the same leading shots on goal for and against but a terrible save %. Similar to what we had with Markstrom last season.

Can he thrive in a low shot volume system ?

[AC]

Originally Posted by jg13

Tampa has allowed 13GA in their last 2 games. Have to imagine they're looking at both Hanifin/Tanev as options.

They've proven time and time again they're willing to pay big at the deadline

Problem is Tampa has a huge deficit in picks and prospects now.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

And McDavid is playing against a much more diluted talent pool. When Gretzky played, there was half as many teams in the league.

Even strength performance is another big factor to consider.

I don't think McDavid should be anywhere near the Mount Rushmore of hockey. Guys like Orr, Lemieux and Howe are also way ahead.

When Gretzky played Russians, Czechs and Slovaks did not play in the league. When Gretzky played the USA would finish 5th in a best on best tournament not be the odds on favourites. Not that I think McDavid is better, but the overall talent pool in a 32 team league is far superior to what it was in a 21 team league.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Tampa would be one of the worst trade partners for us for Hanifin.

I think Hanifin ends up in Florida. A group of former Flames and superstar former Flame going on a cup run would be so us.

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by Pekkerhead

Hate his guts but you can’t deny he’s a generation talent.

What's he ever won?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I think people may be misunderstanding.

Just speaking strictly from a talent perspective. Not leadership, winning, or cups. Not defensive awareness or anything. Just as a pure offensive player.

But why would you judge a hockey player by removing so many important attributes of a hockey player?
Is Zegras is the 2nd most talented player in the NHL?