2010 Calgary Civic Election issues ?

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

I don't work downtown, I don't live downtown. Not much of a downtown person.

When crime is reduced and it becomes more of a family friendly place then I will make somewhat of an effort to visit more often. But I have to say, it seems to be getting better and better.

Hats off to whoever is making it happen.

Imagine if you're a tourist to Calgary. What are you going to do while you're here?

I'd bet that the main answer would be to leave town and go to the mountains, perhaps see a Flames game (if you're into hockey).

But compare that to some world class cities, and they have things to see and do while you're there. Calgary doesn't have a centralized entertainment/shopping/touristic area. Areas surrounding downtown are good candidates for that type of thing though.

[stampsx2]

17th ave, Kensington, Stephen Ave, Calgary tower. Museum if you like that sort of thing. There must be theaters down there somewhere. A pretty good park as well. I think the city has most of the bases covered.

They are working at minimizing crime and remove derelict buildings, that makes our downtown world class as far as I'm concerned.

[SeoulFire]

Urban core living blah blah tax breaks blah blah

Would not get my vote. Why would I want to increase your property value and give you tax breaks?

I would, however, support the development of alternative business and entertainment hubs outside of the downtown core. I lived in a greater-metro area population of about 15,000,000 for 10 years and I loved the decentralized development.

Just say NO to a single core.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by pepper24

I
Calgary's downtown has amazing potential..

Agreed with that...it wouldn't take a lot to make it a destination people want to be.

I really wish 3rd street from Stephen Ave to Eau Claire was better promoted as a "main" walk-way It has a very different vibel about it during that stretch, when you're walking to Eau Claire from Stephen ave. Unfortunatly it has the feel of an unfinished project.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

17th ave, Kensington, Stephen Ave, Calgary tower. Museum if you like that sort of thing. There must be theaters down there somewhere. A pretty good park as well. I think the city has most of the bases covered.

They are working at minimizing crime and remove derelict buildings, that makes our downtown world class as far as I'm concerned.

None of those areas are tourist areas. They are boutique shopping at most.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Would not get my vote. Why would I want to increase your property value and give you tax breaks?

I would, however, support the development of alternative business and entertainment hubs outside of the downtown core. I lived in a greater-metro area population of about 15,000,000 for 10 years and I loved the decentralized development.

Just say NO to a single core.

I think of the old retired Italian couple that lives next door to me. They've been there since the 50's, living in a nice but modest house. They are now paying $2500/year on property tax on very limited income. Is that fair?

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Would not get my vote. Why would I want to increase your property value and give you tax breaks?

I would, however, support the development of alternative business and entertainment hubs outside of the downtown core. I lived in a greater-metro area population of about 15,000,000 for 10 years and I loved the decentralized development.

Just say NO to a single core.

I was in Singapore recently for work and they had what you are describing but it's also a city of 5+ MM people. Calgary at it's size needs to focus on downtown for now. The heart of a great citiy is downtown and our future city council needs to do a better job. Calgary needs to grow up, not out.

Right now people like Mata that live downtown have a lot of their taxes go towards suburban infrastructure due to short-sighted, ugly urban sprawl. Not fair to the inner city folks. If you promote and encourage inner city living and development you mitigae these problems. On top of that you probably make living in the core more affordable.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Agreed with that...it wouldn't take a lot to make it a destination people want to be.

Calgary's advantage that most cities can only dream of is that it has a large workforce with the 3rd most commerical office space in North America. The reason why New York and Chicago have great downtowns is mainly because of this reason.

If people work downtown, a good chunk will eventually want to work and play there. You're seeing that with more high rise buildings in the downtown core and beltline. You're seeing it with areas like Garrison Woods which is bascially a cookie cutter community like Cranston but close to downtown. The core and surrounding areas has changed a lot in the last 10 years.

To make our downtown world-class is not a tough task like many cities throughout North America. It'll start with a creative and passionate city council then needs to build from there.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Would not get my vote. Why would I want to increase your property value and give you tax breaks?

Two reasons:

1 - You believe in fairness.
2 - You realize that wherever you live will eventually be paying for stuff even further out if we don't change how we do business.

Unless of you course you want to keep moving outward with the perimeter of the city, further and further away from anything that's not more houses or big box malls. Then it's in your interest to continue leeching of the inner city, as long as you're honest with yourself that that's what you're doing.

[SeoulFire]

Any cost studies on higher density leading to higher maintenance costs?

I don't work downtown - I work out of a home office for a company based in Toronto. I don't need to go downtown nor do I want to go downtown. I don't want to subsidize downtown living any more than they want to subsidize the suburbs. I lived in one of the highest population density areas of the world and now I want to enjoy a back yard, deck, bbq, yard etc etc.

The trend has been there for a long time - to me it seems like the people that buy next to the airport then complain about the noise. The long-timers have a legitimate gripe - the newcomers do not.

Somewhat related, the commuter from outside the city are the worst offenders.

The sprawl is not the issue it is the accountability and allocation of tax dollars.

[SeoulFire]

SebC

Your "fairness" is subjective.

Your slippery slope also fails to impress me.

[Cscutch]

Here is a good link to a study done on the cost of urban sprawl vs urban development:

http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/BU/...pril_third.pdf

Chris

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Any cost studies on higher density leading to higher maintenance costs?

I don't work downtown - I work out of a home office for a company based in Toronto. I don't need to go downtown nor do I want to go downtown. I don't want to subsidize downtown living any more than they want to subsidize the suburbs. I lived in one of the highest population density areas of the world and now I want to enjoy a back yard, deck, bbq, yard etc etc.

The trend has been there for a long time - to me it seems like the people that buy next to the airport then complain about the noise. The long-timers have a legitimate gripe - the newcomers do not.

Somewhat related, the commuter from outside the city are the worst offenders.

The sprawl is not the issue it is the accountability and allocation of tax dollars.

You might not work downtown but a large chunk of suburbanites do. Sprawl for many is a huge issue.

I had a peak at the 2009 budget summary and about half of our taxes dollars go to transportation. The rest is spread out through recreation, police services, city services, culture, affordable housing etc.

With the transportation portion it's nice to see that a large chunk is towards the LRT including the West leg and expanding existing stations to accomodate 4 cars per train. These will have a positive effect on downtown along with commuters in the suburbs.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

SebC

Your "fairness" is subjective.

Your slippery slope also fails to impress me.

"Fairness" depends on your values. I value economic efficiency, in that subsidies and taxes should reflect externalities instead of personal preference. It's hard to figure out what you value that makes you think the current system is fair. Social justice? Won't argue with that, but there are rich people in the suburbs who benefit from subsidies from less wealthy people who live closer to the core.

And saying Calgary will continue to sprawl unless we remove the incentive for it to do so is hardly a slippery slope argument.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by SebC

"Fairness" depends on your values. I value economic efficiency, in that subsidies and taxes should reflect externalities instead of personal preference. It's hard to figure out what you value that makes you think the current system is fair. Social justice? Won't argue with that, but there are rich people in the suburbs who benefit from subsidies from less wealthy people who live closer to the core.

And saying Calgary will continue to sprawl unless we remove the incentive for it to do so is hardly a slippery slope argument.

I never stated an opinion that the current system was fair

You realize that wherever you live will eventually be paying for stuff even further out if we don't change how we do business.

is what you said - not that Calgary will or will not continue to expand.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

is what you said - not that Calgary will or will not continue to expand.

So? If Calgary expands, and we keep the current system, then I what I said is true.

Calgary will expand whether or not the expansion has to pay for itself, and I'm okay with that.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by SebC

So? If Calgary expands, and we keep the current system, then I what I said is true.

Calgary will expand whether or not the expansion has to pay for itself, and I'm okay with that.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle - neither here nor there.

I never supported nor said that the current system is good and that it should be maintained. Basically I have only stated that a focus on the core and the core only would be a mistake.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle - neither here nor there.

What makes my statement relevant and your neither here nor there is that I said if A is true and B is true then C when I thought we had agreed on A and B. You're saying if A is true then B is true when A is not possible. Clearly not the same.

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

I never supported nor said that the current system is good and that it should be maintained. Basically I have only stated that a focus on the core and the core only would be a mistake.

You did say that you wouldn't vote for someone who would fix the current system. That basically means you think it should be maintained. Although it's true that more density is good outside the core as well.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by SebC

What makes my statement relevant and your neither here nor there is that I said if A is true and B is true then C when I thought we had agreed on A and B. You're saying if A is true then B is true when A is not possible. Clearly not the same.

You did say that you wouldn't vote for someone who would fix the current system. That basically means you think it should be maintained. Although it's true that more density is good outside the core as well.

I don't see much point in continuing this exchange as you continue to make up the details from my side - I am clearly not needed.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

I don't work downtown, I don't live downtown. Not much of a downtown person.

When crime is reduced and it becomes more of a family friendly place then I will make somewhat of an effort to visit more often. But I have to say, it seems to be getting better and better.

Hats off to whoever is making it happen.

Asides from the city, planners, and community associations that are moving forward making the inner-city a better place to visit and live, the biggest ones making the change are people that are coming down to visit and enjoy the downtown and surrounding area. All the planning in the world will do nothing if people don't support it. So why not come down now?