Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[SebC]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Rempel getting slammed by the far right so she can't be that bad:

https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/lett...for-ucp-leader

Kenney gets slammed by the far right and is that bad so your argument is invalid.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by woob

UCP leadership contender Danielle Smith wants Alberta to ignore federal laws it doesn't like.

Can we fire her into the sun, please?

This woman is dangerous. Hard to fathom how so many like her and think she is the best option for the UCP leadership.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Watching a few of the candidate videos and it continues to shock me that the "Ottawa is mean to us" message has not yet become an embarrassment to Albertans.

Are you denying there are structural disadvantages for this province?

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by redforever

This woman is dangerous. Hard to fathom how so many like her and think she is the best option for the UCP leadership.

Yeah she is crazy. And getting crazier by the day.

These guys are making the NDP palatable.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Are you denying there are structural disadvantages for this province?

There’s a difference between blaming them for what one would consider to be structural disadvantages and blaming them for anything and everything that goes wrong. It makes our province look petty and makes it harder to be taken seriously on our legitimate grievances. No matter how much our provincial and federal governments disagree we need them to be working towards compromise. The us vs mentality that has been ingrained into the minds of voters in this province serves no purpose other than to get the politicians peddling it re-elected. It’s pretty sad when our provincial government delays taking pandemic relief money offered by the federal government because it ruins their narrative that Ottawa doesn’t help us.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Are you denying there are structural disadvantages for this province?

They're not, so let's try this again:

It is and it should be f--king embarrassing to Albertans that all anyone in the UCP and its leadership candidates can talk about is how Ottawa is mean to Alberta, whether thinly veiled or overt. Quit whining and put in the work to make things better. Try building relationships instead of setting fire to the bridge every time you get a microphone in front of your face.

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

These guys are making the NDP palatable.

This is a daft statement unless you were in a coma for the last three years and got out on June 19th.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

There’s a difference between blaming them for what one would consider to be structural disadvantages and blaming them for anything and everything that goes wrong. It makes our province look petty and makes it harder to be taken seriously on our legitimate grievances. No matter how much our provincial and federal governments disagree we need them to be working towards compromise. The us vs mentality that has been ingrained into the minds of voters in this province serves no purpose other than to get the politicians peddling it re-elected. It’s pretty sad when our provincial government delays taking pandemic relief money offered by the federal government because it ruins their narrative that Ottawa doesn’t help us.

Agreed with most of this but you need to have a partner in Ottawa that will negotiate in good faith.

Having a bill like C-69 which explicitly targeted oil sands projects is not trying to forge a partnership.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Agreed with most of this but you need to have a partner in Ottawa that will negotiate in good faith.

Having a bill like C-69 which explicitly targeted oil sands projects is not trying to forge a partnership.

What are the specific points in bill c-69 that you think are unjust, and what compromise based counter proposals have the CPC offered besides saying no? What steps have the UCP taken to find a resolution besides complaining?

For better or worse the liberals bought the trans mountain pipeline to ensure it gets built, which is obviously good for Alberta’s economy despite it probably not aligning with the wants of a segment of their voter base. What has the CPC or the UCP done to compromise on anything the liberals or NDP have put forward specifically regarding Alberta’s economy? Compromise has to be a two way street, especially when you’re the party negotiating from a position with very little leverage.

[the_only_turek_fan]

If I understand the bill, the environmental assessment process does not apply to things like WW facilities, steel manufacturing, etc..all processes that are carbon intensive.

This bill is discriminatory in its application to western industries.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Honestly, the arguments in this thread (including mine) have been regurgitated so many times, there really isn’t any point to this thread anymore.

What we have a federal party in power who doesn’t care about us and a provincial party in power that gins up the base but has no plan.

I do feel that the Liberal party of Canada fears an economically strong Alberta, BC, and Saskatchewan. Call it a conspiracy theory, call it whatever you want. I will go to the grave believing this.

iggi_oi, I think you are a good person unlike a lot of other flame throwers in this thread.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

What are the specific points in bill c-69 that you think are unjust, and what compromise based counter proposals have the CPC offered besides saying no? What steps have the UCP taken to find a resolution besides complaining?

For better or worse the liberals bought the trans mountain pipeline to ensure it gets built, which is obviously good for Alberta’s economy despite it probably not aligning with the wants of a segment of their voter base. What has the CPC or the UCP done to compromise on anything the liberals or NDP have put forward specifically regarding Alberta’s economy? Compromise has to be a two way street, especially when you’re the party negotiating from a position with very little leverage.

Having the Transmountain pipeline is great. The farther away from the initial decision that we get, the more that I think that the only reason it went through is because Trudeau and his cronies lump B.C. in with the "West", and simply didn't really give a #### what we do. The pipeline isn't going to get in the way of their environmental goals (on paper), because it follows an existing line.

At the same time, under discussion was Energy East. The thing that would have made Canada champions of the world following the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Trudeau gave the power to destroy that pipeline to the mayor of Montreal. Actually two rungs down in political power, it's like making the stick boy the first line centre of an NHL team, purely out of spite.

It would hurt the feelings of British Colombians to know that Trudeau thinks so little of them. Just more of those western hicks.

[Torture]

Going to pretty damn hard to complain about equalization and Ottawa when we have a 10-12 billion dollar budget surplus thanks to the price of oil and paid off O&G projects with higher royalties.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Torture

Going to pretty damn hard to complain about equalization and Ottawa when we have a 10-12 billion dollar budget surplus thanks to the price of oil and paid off O&G projects with higher royalties.

10-12B surplus by end of year after a project 10B projected deficit in the same year?

Woe is Alberta.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Are you denying there are structural disadvantages for this province?

Alberta hit the resource jackpot and have oil out the ying yang. Its like a guy with a million dollar car complaining that speed limits are screwing him. Alberta has wild advantages economically over every other province in the country because of the oil there.

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Its like a guy with a million dollar car complaining that speed limits are screwing him.

Feels more like having a million dollar car but they put it on blocks. We can sit in it making “vroom vroom” noises, but we really can’t use it

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Alberta hit the resource jackpot and have oil out the ying yang. Its like a guy with a million dollar car complaining that speed limits are screwing him. Alberta has wild advantages economically over every other province in the country because of the oil there.

Alberta does and doesn't have economic advantages. Obviously the natural resource development has been a boon. Nevertheless, the lack of manufacturing as well as direct access to markets is a challenge.

I am not suggesting that this is all Ottawa's fault, lots of it is a knot that we've tied up for ourselves with a pump and dump mentality. That said, the historic president for the federal government is that it does not make policies or invest in Alberta's economy. This is in part because of an historic focus on developing industry in eastern Canada, but it is also in part because Alberta did not need prolonged aid after the late eighties until about right now.


I think lots of the anti Ottawa rhetoric has so much purchase here because of political and cultural alienation. Any idiot knows that Alberta is the punching bag of every province in terms of discourse. That said, we don't help our selves by constantly crying about being victims while enjoying some of the best quality of life in the world.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Alberta does and doesn't have economic advantages. Obviously the natural resource development has been a boon. Nevertheless, the lack of manufacturing as well as direct access to markets is a challenge.

I am not suggesting that this is all Ottawa's fault, lots of it is a knot that we've tied up for ourselves with a pump and dump mentality. That said, the historic president for the federal government is that it does not make policies or invest in Alberta's economy. This is in part because of an historic focus on developing industry in eastern Canada, but it is also in part because Alberta did not need prolonged aid after the late eighties until about right now.


I think lots of the anti Ottawa rhetoric has so much purchase here because of political and cultural alienation. Any idiot knows that Alberta is the punching bag of every province in terms of discourse. That said, we don't help our selves by constantly crying about being victims while enjoying some of the best quality of life in the world.

Alberta is a 'punching bag' because the rest of Canada sees you earning more money than the rest of us (at least up until recently), having cheaper housing, paying less taxes because you have a bunch of oil in the ground and then complaining about how tough you have it.

Although the punching bag thing is way over-stated. People think about Alberta as much here as you think about Manitoba.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Although the punching bag thing is way over-stated. People think about Alberta as much here as you think about Manitoba.

Does Ontario people in general think or care about any other provinces outside of maybe Quebec?

[Ozy_Flame]

Being in Ontario now, no one gives a flying F about Alberta, Quebec, BC, Sask, Manitoba, or the Maritimes. They're all focused on their own business, and the only ones making a stink are those who are letting the well-being of other provinces affect their lives or are such deep-rooted policy wonks they can't help but project on others.

Alberta could take a cue from Ontario and Quebec. Their votes can be swayed one way or the other (just look at the Ford majority), and thus have a healthier engagement with the federal government for provincial matters which can also parlay into federal politics. They don't need to pay attention to Alberta as provincial jurisdictions because it just isn't important to worry about what Albertans think.


Albertans seem to have this obsession about other provinces image of them and how they're treated, but it really is an internal dialogue (and add some Ottawa frustration in the process).

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Being in Ontario now, no one gives a flying F about Alberta, Quebec, BC, Sask, Manitoba, or the Maritimes. They're all focused on their own business, and the only ones making a stink are those who are letting the well-being of other provinces affect their lives or are such deep-rooted policy wonks they can't help but project on others.

Alberta could take a cue from Ontario and Quebec. Their votes can be swayed one way or the other (just look at the Ford majority), and thus have a healthier engagement with the federal government for provincial matters which can also parlay into federal politics. They don't need to pay attention to Alberta as provincial jurisdictions because it just isn't important to worry about what Albertans think.


Albertans seem to have this obsession about other provinces image of them and how they're treated, but it really is an internal dialogue (and add some Ottawa frustration in the process).

To be fair people in Ontario don't care because outside of Quebec, the other provinces don't matter as none of them have any influence on the federal government who only need to pander to Ontario and Quebec.