Ukraine Presidential Crackdown Violence. Russia Invades Ukraine

[burn_this_city]

Considering the Russians shot down a passenger jet killing 300 people they shouldn't have expected a warm reception.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Considering the Russians shot down a passenger jet killing 300 people they shouldn't have expected a warm reception.

Not just the fact it was shot down, but the fact they denied until the evidence pointed to them, at which point they reacted with pure indifference.

[FlameOn]

Putin has now publicly stated following the G20 summit that he will not let the Ukrainian forces defeat the Eastern rebels. What that means though, in terms of arms or even more open Russian support, is left up to speculation

Russian President Vladimir Putin warned he won’t allow rebels in eastern Ukraine to be defeated by government forces as European Union ministers met to consider imposing more sanctions on the separatists.

“You want the Ukrainian central authorities to annihilate everyone there, all of their political foes and opponents,” Putin said in an interview yesterday with Germany’s ARD television. “Is that what you want? We certainly don’t. And we won’t let it happen.”

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said yesterday the EU will keep its economic sanctions on Russia “for as long as they are needed.” EU foreign ministers convened today in Brussels to discuss adding to sanctions that have limited access to capital markets for some Russian banks and companies and blacklisted officials involved in the conflict. New measures will likely target pro-Russian separatist leaders, the EU said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...rn-rebels.html

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Putin has now publicly stated following the G20 summit that he will not let the Ukrainian forces defeat the Eastern rebels. What that means though, in terms of arms or even more open Russian support, is left up to speculation


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...rn-rebels.html

Just ####ing great.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FlamesAllTheWay

Russia's powerful but not that powerful and sooner or later will really start to feel the negative effects of this.

While true, Russia has been betting pretty heavily on the fact that Ukraine isnt important enough to be worth helping and so far they're right.

[FlameOn]

Putin is now claiming the West is provoking it into another cold war. What the F with the abusive spouse mentality Putin?

It's like "Do you see what you made me do?! Huh? Why do you make me stockpile armaments and cause worldwide tension?! Why do you make me invade other countries?"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...spies-deported

NATO is reporting of a massive buildup of troops at the Russian boarder and within Ukraine itself. Apparently Obama is mulling whether to announce a Russian invasion.

In Brussels, NATO's head Jens Stoltenberg issued a stark warning to Moscow over the seven-month conflict in Ukraine's east which has killed over 4,100 people and plunged relations between the West and Russia to a post-Cold War low.
Stoltenberg said there was a "very serious build-up" of troops, artillery and air defence systems inside Ukraine and on the Russian side of the border as he arrived to meet European Union defence ministers in Brussels.
"Russia has a choice. Russia can either be part of a peaceful negotiated solution or Russia can continue on a path of isolation," Stoltenberg said. "The international community calls on Russia to be part of the solution."

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nato-head-...9.html#GoqlCbb

[northcrunk]

Russian planes coming close to the UK

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31049952

Likely due to the public iquiry into the murder of a former Russian spy who was going to expose the Russian Mafia elements who control Putin.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30998027

See above, Alexander Litvinenko was murdered in London after drinking tea poisened with radioactive polonium after meeting with 2 russian spies. He wasnt killed the first time he was poisened but the third. England is trying to extradite the suspects but Russia denies it saying they wouldn't get a fair trial in England but they will be willing to if the court case was in Russia.

[FlamesAddiction]

I just saw on the breaking news ticker that the Ukrainian leaders believe they are in a state of war with Russia now, and not just "Russian-backed" rebels.

Obama is leaning towards sending arms to the Ukrainians.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine...bels-1.2945354

It seems like things are really escalating over the past week.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I just saw on the breaking news ticker that the Ukrainian leaders believe they are in a state of war with Russia now, and not just "Russian-backed" rebels.

Obama is leaning towards sending arms to the Ukrainians.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine...bels-1.2945354

It seems like things are really escalating over the past week.

Not surprising. There was huge amounts of evidence Russian troops were in Ukraine, along with Russian equipment. Declaring war now is just a formality.

Russian woman got charged with treason for notifying the Ukrainian embassy that Russian special forces had been deployed to Ukraine.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...vydova-treason

[Rerun]

Over the weekend Putin poured large amounts of equipment and significant numbers of troops into the Ukraine.

KIEV: At least 1,500 Russian troops and convoys of military hardware entered Ukraine over the weekend, the Ukrainian military said on Monday.

"One thousand five hundred Russian soldiers and 300 pieces of military equipment, including Grad missile systems, crossed the Ukraine-Russia border on February 7 and 8," Ukraine military spokesman Andriy Lysensko told journalists.

Around 170 vehicles, including trucks, petrol tankers and cars, also crossed the border, he said. Ukraine and the West accuse Moscow of supplying troops and equipment to pro-Russian separatists battling the Kiev military in the east of the country, something Russia denies.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/w...w/46181360.cms

[polak]

I'm not liking how close this is happening to home...

Put me in the camp that thinks that we (the rest of the west) won't do anything to stop it until it's moved past the initial land grab...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by polak

I'm not liking how close this is happening to home...

Put me in the camp that thinks that we (the rest of the west) won't do anything to stop it until it's moved past the initial land grab...

At that point if you wait for the Russians and the rebels to dig in and consolidate any land that they take, it will be a hugely bloody and extremely costly fight to get them out, and that's not a price that the Western Powers will be willing to pay.

Any negotiations will start and end with the Russians saying we're not giving anything back so don't ask.

[Locke]

I said it before and I'll say it again. We, being anyone thats not the Ukraine or Russians, arent going to do anything.

There will be no negotiations, there will be no military support. The fact of the matter is that Ukraine simply isnt important enough to warrant stepping this up to the next level.

Economic sanctions are likely the limit of external involvement.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

At that point if you wait for the Russians and the rebels to dig in and consolidate any land that they take, it will be a hugely bloody and extremely costly fight to get them out, and that's not a price that the Western Powers will be willing to pay.

Any negotiations will start and end with the Russians saying we're not giving anything back so don't ask.

Originally Posted by Locke

I said it before and I'll say it again. We, being anyone thats not the Ukraine or Russians, arent going to do anything.

There will be no negotiations, there will be no military support. The fact of the matter is that Ukraine simply isnt important enough to warrant stepping this up to the next level.

Economic sanctions are likely the limit of external involvement.

Ukrainians are screwed if they fight, screwed if they don't. If they sue for peace now with the rebels and Russia, they lose Luhansk and Donetsk for a temporary reprieve in fighting and more than likely we'll see a future "rebels" in a self proclaimed republic of Kharkov. If they continue fighting, it delays the Russians a bit at least and create enough time for the international community to react a little more, but the result will likely be the same, loss of Ukrainian territory and lives lost.

Thing is the West needs to make this as costly for Russia as possible. There are significant ethnic Russian populations outside of Ukraine. Belarus, Latvia, Kazahkstan and Poland may eventually be in trouble if the West doesn't.

[FlamesAddiction]

Georgia will be next. Russia invaded them once recently. They already recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia and has given them Russian nationality/passports.

Estonia and Latvia are at risk as well. Russia doesn't want Russians to be associated with NATO or the EU as it threatens their power internally if those ideals spread.

From what I understand, Belarus is already a Russian puppet and Kazakhstan bows to them fairly easily.

[blankall]

Well Putin has definitely found a way to district his population from the fact that the Russian economy and political system is in the toilet.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Georgia will be next. Russia invaded them once recently. They already recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia and has given them Russian nationality/passports.

Estonia and Latvia are at risk as well. Russia doesn't want Russians to be associated with NATO or the EU as it threatens their power internally if those ideals spread.

From what I understand, Belarus is already a Russian puppet and Kazakhstan bows to them fairly easily.

The new USSR is the Eurasian Economic Union. Kazakhstan and Belarus are both members.

[FlameOn]

On the heels of the US and NATO discussing whether to arm Ukraine or not, Russia is threatening "all-out war" if the US decides to.

A close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin has told the European Parliament that "all-out war" could result if the US supplies arms to the Ukrainian government in Kiev.

Alexei Pushkov, a leading Russian MP, was addressing about 100 MEPs in the parliament's foreign affairs committee.

He was speaking after President Barack Obama said he had not ruled out sending arms to Kiev if diplomacy failed.

The option of lethal defensive weapons was being examined, Mr Obama said.

Mr Pushkov, who is on the US sanctions blacklist, warned that American weapons could "expand the war and turn it into a real threat to the whole European security system", Tass news agency quoted him as saying.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31356372

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by blankall

Well Putin has definitely found a way to district his population from the fact that the Russian economy and political system is in the toilet.

People will eat a lot of errrr poop if they see their leaders winning.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Georgia will be next. Russia invaded them once recently. They already recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia and has given them Russian nationality/passports.

Estonia and Latvia are at risk as well. Russia doesn't want Russians to be associated with NATO or the EU as it threatens their power internally if those ideals spread.

From what I understand, Belarus is already a Russian puppet and Kazakhstan bows to them fairly easily.

And everyone is going to let the Russians have it all because none of these places is important enough to anyone else to warrant an escalation in hostilities.