I wish I wasn't a sucker for all things Star Trek.
I am still confused about what is causing a burn -temper tantrums?
I know this is re-hashing already posted things, but how come every. little. thing. has to be an emotional moment?
A lot of the emotions are justified, but these characters need to get over themselves. When Michael lost her first officer status and Michael was telling the captain he was doing the right thing - they made HER the ethical one when she was in the wrong. Yes, the captain was doing the right thing, but it would be pure incompetence if he hadn't demoted her, and it should be obvious to everyone.
should of played out like:
Captain: Michael, you are being demoted for these reasons.
Michael: I know, you are correct for doing that
Captain: Ya no ####
Instead its a slow walk and just pain.
Lastly, when you have hero who can do a lot of things, I think the writers do that so people can see a super hero in themselves and cheer for the hero as a way to pretend they themselves could do that.
I don't know why, but I am actively cheering against Michael. I want the federation to win, but I keep hoping they win despite Michaels activities. Not Micheal makes a mistake, team bails her out, then she bails out the team in a much larger fashion.
The burn was basically caused by a temper tantrum, that's the math. A abandoned child mutated by radiation on a dillithium based planet. That's it, that's all, unless they do a major gear shift tonight, I expect the burn to be completely concluded, as well as the Emerald Chain story line. Then next year will focus on time travel probably.
Everything has to be emotional, but a lot of it seems forced or contrived. They had these other storylines that could have been cool and developed the bridge furniture (Its what I call everyone beyond Michael, Stamets, Tilley and Saru, but they either dropped them (Detmer) or flashed them out of nowhere and they were meaningless (Droid woman). Its just bad writing.
Yeah, any ship Captain who put out Judicial punishment and had the punished person assuring him that he had done the right thing would have found away to get that person off of the ship or out the airlock.
The problem is they've written themselves into a corner, Michael solves every problem, over rides everyone else's authority, and gets every juicy story beat, she's like the William Shatner in this series, where the writers have made her the extreme center point of everything. The feel to me is that they're really pushing for her to end this series as the Captain of Discovery, and they're now really pushing for Tilly to have a prominent role, though she's just annoying.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I guess we should of guessed the burn would be directly the cause of someone's emotions given everything else in this series is overly emotional.
Just shocked it isn't somehow tied to Michael in the future past making a much larger sacrifice to create the burn but save a greater number of people. From what I understand from the lessons of this show- all things tie back to Michael and the universe is helpless without her.
There were some aspects of this finale that I did like. It was ernest and it had a lot of action, and frankly Doug Jones as Saru is a real strength in this show when they don't make him the worst Captain in the Federation.
The problem is two fold. First of all the writers seem to be determined to throw everything at the wall at a break neck pace, and by doing that, it feels like they lose track of key story elements. The second element is that they went so long with really making everyone other then Michael, and Tilly and Saru and maybe Stamets that when they hint at their end you're like, I'm not really connected to this character so whatever.
At the end of this episode, there was really no sacrifice, I never felt tension or fear, I knew that Michael would prevail and over come everything with no real help. Its the great flaw of Discovery in that its a fairly pretty package, but what's inside just isn't interesting.
Even the Villains at the end Osyras and the Pirate King didn't feel like they were a threat of lived up to the challenge. When she was basically shot, I felt more empathy for the data cubes that Michael puked up then with her, when the Pirate king fell and bounced off of the elevator I didn't really feel that emotional fist pump that you usually feel when the villain dies.
As far as disconnected bits, they built up the Sphere droids to take back the ship, and in the first battle you see them getting shot to pieces, and while the last one saved the arm chair of the bridge from being blowed up and died, you just don't feel it. With Stamets, they have him in two scenes, so everything that was built up with him in the last episode went in the, meh that wasn't important bin.
Really the best part of the whole episode wasn't Michael or the battle scenes, but Saru simply having a conversation with SaGul or whatever his name was.
Like I said there were really things to like here, but without pacing, or actual story, or a credible story line (The Burn will go down as one of the worst long term stories in Star Trek history to me). The series and the episode itself will always be mediocre at best.
With the shows track record of good first half and a major falling off in quality in the second half through its first three seasons it makes you feel a bit vexed about any kind of time investment.
Random thoughts
So is Gray a force ghost, a new version of the Great Gazoo? I don't know its just a strange concept
So going outside of the holo deck and you get insta sick from radiation, but this is forgotten later when the holo deck is turned off.
I knew that they were going to make Michael the Captain, but they bludgeoned us over the head with the Cringeworthy Tilly going "We need you to lead us, that's an order" At that I mentally could see the brick leaving my hand and going through the TV. Tilly is just a flat un interesting milquetoast character, and her ascention to First Officer and Captain was plainly done for the conclusion that nobody could be Captain but Michael.
So they're running out of O2 in minutes and have time to have a lengthy yak session, followed by a Tilly pep talk, and later armchair runs out of oxygen just as she goes to plant the bomb. I literally laughed out loud at that bit of stupidity. Then later they have a 4 minute conference on the bridge as the enemy is blazing away at them. That to me is just bad writing because its fracking annoying.
"Lets Fly" that's the new catchphrase, The only thing that would have been worse was if the Catch Phrase was "Hippity Hoppity".
So now the discover goes from a science vessel to allied Van Lines. I would assume that they're going to try a more episodic approach next year as they cargo haul fuel from world to world.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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1. I thought the idea of a Federation - Emerald Chain alliance to be a brilliant twist to the season and one in the true spirit of Trek. But it's suddenly dismissed and desolves into a 40 punch/kick battle. We're told that Osyraa actually may have a bit of good side by Auriello and that the EC is more of a victim of extreme Merchantilism but then the writers just make her go full-baddy and one of the dumbest deaths ever. As for Michael Jesus's one liner, "I don't quit......" when did Osyraa quit????
2. I'm probably in the minority but I was on board with Tilly being promoted as her character started to grow and round out. This finale was the perfect opportunity to show her capable of being in command, then what happens? She dawdles on a plan to save the crew and gives up her command at the very first opportunity.
She should have shown leadership by taking the bomb herself or, if I was writing, I would have had her go Full Deanna Troi and order one of her crew to go on a suicide mission as her first responsibility is to the ship.
3. The entire lead up to the show was that the Sphere Data was there hiding in a Buster Keaton film and was now showing up to help re-take Discovery. And then......the robots do absolutely nothing besides getting blown up and somehow pulling Armchair to safety (off screen).
4. Michael Jesus makes a big show of sending a secret message to her mum and the Vulcans last epsiode. Then we get to hear that the Vulcan's showed up off screen.......and did nothing. And then holy moly we can a recap that I guess everything is hunky dory.
5. The ship itself - first I found it really hard to believe that there is no safeguard against putting your face into those movable crystals. If you fell asleep at your desk you can just suffocate yourself.
And then why did all of the tech reset just because Michael turned the computer on and off? If I reset my desktop I don't suddenly revert to Windows 95.
6. Actually I was willing to accept all of this until the very end when Admiral Vance suddenly becomes the President of the Michael Burnham fanclub, out of no where, an Admiral who likely knows the entire history of Starfleet.....suddenly finds out that breaking the rules is the best trait of all.
Personally the only part of the ep that I enjoyed with the stuff with Grey which I thought was really well done. But everything else, ugh.
Last edited by craigwd; 01-08-2021 at 09:21 AM.
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I agree with the Captain in that there were some good things in that episode, and there are some likeable characters on this show (Saru, Book, Reno, Culber, Stamets). But yea, overall this season just fell flat after it seemed like it had finally found its footing in the first few episodes. It's disappointing.
Hopefully S2 of Picard can finally give us the live-action Trek that we all crave. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, Picard had some flaws in its first season, but it's a better show that what we've gotten from Discovery.
The upcoming Pike series also sounds promising.
Last edited by direwolf; 01-08-2021 at 12:22 PM.
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With a lot of Picard, it works and its decent because you have a actor that can make you get past the bad plot decisions, bad writing and bad dialogue when it happens.
With discovery, I'd class most of the cast as poor actors that can't carry their scenes. The exception is Doug Jones, but maybe because I've been a fan of his work for a long time.
Even the actor who plays Stamets is underwhelming and one key which is surprising because he's always been pretty solid.
It was funny that Reno turned up at the end of the episode in the robot fixing but was nowhere to be seen when she would have been the perfect one to put the engineering spin on the plan, and be snark enough to tell these idiots to stop talking because they have limited oxygen. That long conversation, the long pep talks when they were running out of oxygen or when the ship was being shot up was the most unforgivable piece of writing in the episode in my mind.
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I knew it would be the Michael show, so I accepted she would save the day. I actually didn't mind the ejection of the warp core and blowing the ship from inside, fun ride.
I didn't like Jedi Knight Michael, straight out of Star Wars when she jumped from the turbo lift.
Where there hell was the Obi-wan Cameo going "I hate it when she does that?"
I liked the inspirational ending.
Hated the admiral admitting Michael's past disregarding of orders was correct. You are military - you don't tell people sometimes its best to ignore order. One of my favorite characters (the admiral) just undid an entire season of building.
Absolutely horse#### and stupid writing from this show in a way to make Michael look correct for all her past incorrect actions. The admiral was a great character up to that point - telling Stamets he understands his sacrifice but making the hard call
Hey writers- can a character be flawed by chance and not always eventually correct?
So stupid
Lastly, in the second last episode , how come the characters were caught by surprise, once again, that future tech can teleport through their shields? Also, I thought they got upgraded? Or just empty plot hole with more crap writing? How many times have people transported through their shields now? Is it not standard procedure to expect it?
I generally think the admiral does well in his scenes, aside from my comments in my previous post, but that is bad writing, not the actor.
Don't really disagree with anything in your spoiler post
In response to Craigwd comments- I am glad you share my comment about the admiral from my last post. Still pissed about that. I like they beat the chain however, I didn't like the idea of an integration.
Forgot to mention, I did like the tail end of the episode with the old-school Trek music and that inspiring quote from Roddenberry. That was good stuff.
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Forgot to mention, I did like the tail end of the episode with the old-school Trek music and that inspiring quote from Roddenberry. That was good stuff.
Ya, I felt my anger fade from the previous scene. It almost all melted away from just that music alone
Ya, I felt my anger fade from the previous scene. It almost all melted away from just that music alone
Funny thing is that you see that same scene in pretty much every Trek film and TV series: the bridge crew all smile at each other, the captain sits down in the big chair, looks straight ahead, says his/her catch-phrase, and then the ship warps away to the next adventure. But dammit, I f'n love those scenes, and I'm a total sucker for nostalgia, especially if you throw in the original theme music or an inspirational voice-over doing the famous "space- the final frontier" quote.
Funny thing is that you see that same scene in pretty much every Trek film and TV series: the bridge crew all smile at each other, the captain sits down in the big chair, looks straight ahead, says his/her catch-phrase, and then the ship warps away to the next adventure. But dammit, I f'n love those scenes, and I'm a total sucker for nostalgia, especially if you throw in the original theme music or an inspirational voice-over doing the famous "space- the final frontier" quote.
It's like a drug, hook that theme and ending into my IV and distract me from the rest of the horrible writing. If you do this, I will come back for more beatings next season.
The scenes above, yeah I'm a sucker for the end scenes in star trek, even though the end of Nemisis literally left me wanting to punch Picard in the face and to plant a bomb in the warp core.
Shatner was the absolute best at it. I think I tear up everytime I see the ending of undiscovered country. Second Star to the Right and Straight on til Morning, followed by the final Captain's log and then the hand signed credits. Knowing it was the end of an era.
But you missed one of my favorites.
Out there . . . thataway.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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Yea, that's a good one too. My personal favorite is the one I posted above from Voyage Home where Kirk says "let's see what she's got."
I also got super emotional at the end of Undiscovered Country. And I may have teared up a little at the end of the 2009 reboot when Leonard Nimoy narrated the "space, the final frontier..." monologue, which I thought was really well done.
I liked it. The Burn cause didn’t seem as lame as it initially seemed like it was going to be. I like how it mostly played out. They really need or stop killing every adversary though!
I thought that was a load of loose dog ####. "And poochie flew back to his home planet, never to be seen again". Like, what, Saru suddenly decides to abandon everything? Of course now Captain everything is finally where they should have just started form the beginning, as the abandon the idea of having the central character not be in charge, which was the whole concept for the show. Good they finally admitted it.
And what the hell was that turbolift scene? The Discovery has this massive open area behind the scenes where all the turbolifts operate? Has any Star Trek ever shown anything like this? It's just ridiculous. Everything we've ever seen on these ships is tight jefferies tubes, everything on the ship packed in tight. Where is this scene taking place on a mostly flat ship? Doesn't matter! We need an action scene! Let's make more #### up!
And every ship in the ST fleet spends 5 minutes firing on Discovery, and they can't break through the shields? Must have been a hell of an upgrade.
Now how do we get out of this one? Lets just give Book spore drive capabilities. Why the #### not at this point!
Gray is a holo, only existing in the holo space, except for that part where because they are a holo, is the only one able to exit the holo to look outside because radiation? Never mind Grey would cease to exist beyond the holo. How does that even make sense?
Nothing matters, nothing makes sense, we don't need consistency because we are making an action show, not smart sci fi. It's all just such garbage writing.
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And every ship in the ST fleet spends 5 minutes firing on Discovery, and they can't break through the shields? Must have been a hell of an upgrade.
The chain can transport directly through discovery's shields in the previous episode, but discovery's shield can last against the onslaught of every sheet in the fleet!
Forgot to mention, I did like the tail end of the episode with the old-school Trek music and that inspiring quote from Roddenberry. That was good stuff.
It felt like more of a "Sorry about us taking a shot at Gene earlier in the season with the whole dead body cleaning crewman scene" then anything that was really relevant to the story.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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We're told that Osyraa actually may have a bit of good side by Auriello and that the EC is more of a victim of extreme Merchantilism but then the writers just make her go full-baddy and one of the dumbest deaths ever. As for Michael Jesus's one liner, "I don't quit......" when did Osyraa quit???? 
