American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Haha always with the hot takes. I feel like the world and the way literally everything works, how decisions are made, the big picture...everything...is completely beyond your comprehension.

Perhaps a hot take but also an honest and realistic take? What do you think happened in 2016 when Clinton lost to Trump. You literally had the Democrats and Barrack Obama laying significant blame on Clinton and campaign.

We went from all this "we are going to smash the glass ceiling" to why the hell did you not campaign with a lot of normal American's. Direct quote right after the election.

"“You know, I won Iowa not because the demographics dictated that I would win Iowa. It was because I spent 87 days going to every small town and fair and fish fry and VFW hall, and there were some counties where I might have lost, but maybe I lost by 20 points instead of 50 points,” Obama said'

Another time, upon reflection, perhaps giving speeches to tech companies with 9 employee's and $9 billion dollar valuations, the campaign should have focused the US Rust Belt where they got smoked out of the water. Ie: Less 9 people offices and more 19 000 people stadiums??

If there is going to be all this outrage in November when a demented, sick and dangerous old man wins, then the reflection of allowing another older and struggling man to run probably won't be sufficient. Perhaps some consequences for decisions? I am old fashion like that.

In YOUR business, if someone messes up beyond comprehension to catastrophic consequences when they potentially knew the risks, shrugging ones shoulders probably doesn't come off as an appropriate excuse or reason.

[MoneyGuy]

One guy is old and imperfect. Despite his mistakes he genuinely wants the best for Americans. He surrounds himself with good people and and makes good decisions. We don’t have to worry he’s going to insult other world leaders and start a war.

The other guy is also old but is a deranged maniac who has probably raped girls and is facing 91 felonies. He doesn’t care about making Americans’ lives better. He only cares about Trump. He befriends dictators and supports their illegal activities. He’ll threaten global security and let Putin run amok in Eastern Europe.

The choice is clear.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Perhaps a hot take but also an honest and realistic take? What do you think happened in 2016 when Clinton lost to Trump. You literally had the Democrats and Barrack Obama laying significant blame on Clinton and campaign.

We went from all this "we are going to smash the glass ceiling" to why the hell did you not campaign with a lot of normal American's. Direct quote right after the election.

"“You know, I won Iowa not because the demographics dictated that I would win Iowa. It was because I spent 87 days going to every small town and fair and fish fry and VFW hall, and there were some counties where I might have lost, but maybe I lost by 20 points instead of 50 points,” Obama said'

Another time, upon reflection, perhaps giving speeches to tech companies with 9 employee's and $9 billion dollar valuations, the campaign should have focused the US Rust Belt where they got smoked out of the water. Ie: Less 9 people offices and more 19 000 people stadiums??

If there is going to be all this outrage in November when a demented, sick and dangerous old man wins, then the reflection of allowing another older and struggling man to run probably won't be sufficient. Perhaps some consequences for decisions? I am old fashion like that.

In YOUR business, if someone messes up beyond comprehension to catastrophic consequences when they potentially knew the risks, shrugging ones shoulders probably doesn't come off as an appropriate excuse or reason.

Clinton lost because of Comey.

Additionally, she didn't mess up beyond comprehension. She ran on issues, was the superior debater and had a better and more honest plan for America.

She lost because she faced a strong man who is also a charismatic leader in the eyes of a large percentage of Americans. Add to that the Comey crap right at the end and that resulted in a loss. She isn't some blundering moron who fataed it all up.

This is prime curves, though. Whatever you think is happening - regardless of the topic - is not what's happening.

I suggest you write less, read more, and go to a trusted adult to help you make sense of this crazy world. Whatever it is that you are doing on your own isn't working and I'm sick of being embarrassed for you.

[Izzle]

Imagine prostrating yourself for Putin. Have some self-respect.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Izzle

Imagine prostrating yourself for Putin. Have some self-respect.

Who, me? Couldn't be more wrong in that regard. Putin doesn't mess around so we know that he will only escalate this.

If the world leaders didn't capitulate to him and ended his life at the start, we probably would be further ahead. I have had enough debates with people on CP on devastating blow approach to Russia and Putin directly. That war should never have happened. All the garbage that world leaders have achieved with sanctions, confiscating oligarchs boats clearly hasn't work to the degree promised.

He calls up our enemies in Iran and North Korea and others and is getting re-upped with ammo and equipment. Meanwhile NATO countries, the US and EU are "attempting" to fulfill an order of artillery and meaningful aid is being debated tooth and nail in the US Congress.

[Harry Lime]

40 years ago (actually 30, 20, 10) , anybody who would be blocking aid to Ukraine in this situation would be labelled a communist sympathizer in the southern states, and have to watch their back. Amazing propaganda machine, creating this kind of turnaround that Americans can't get behind a morally justifiable proxy war.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

40 years ago (actually 30, 20, 10) , anybody who would be blocking aid to Ukraine in this situation would be labelled a communist sympathizer in the southern states, and have to watch their back. Amazing propaganda machine, creating this kind of turnaround that Americans can't get behind a morally justifiable proxy war.

I think a part of is just the overall failure of the "War on Terror". So many wars, proxy and otherwise, and the Middle East is as bad as ever and Taleban rules in Afghanistan again, Libya is much worse off than it was with Gaddafi, etc.

A lot of Americans are tired of paying for long wars that either don't seem to go anywhere or actively make things worse. Propaganda has done it's thing clearly, but the ground was prepared by Americans themselves.

[Ped]

There's a certain part of the American electorate that will just vote Trump no matter what, and another part that has no willingness to look at issues beyond headlines.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Itse

I think a part of is just the overall failure of the "War on Terror". So many wars, proxy and otherwise, and the Middle East is as bad as ever and Taleban rules in Afghanistan again, Libya is much worse off than it was with Gaddafi, etc.

A lot of Americans are tired of paying for long wars that either don't seem to go anywhere or actively make things worse. Propaganda has done it's thing clearly, but the ground was prepared by Americans themselves.

America used to win wars with propaganda. Effectively the Cold War ended because quality of life in the west was better. And the western propaganda worked to convince people that the west was better.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Itse

I think a part of is just the overall failure of the "War on Terror". So many wars, proxy and otherwise, and the Middle East is as bad as ever and Taleban rules in Afghanistan again, Libya is much worse off than it was with Gaddafi, etc.

A lot of Americans are tired of paying for long wars that either don't seem to go anywhere or actively make things worse. Propaganda has done it's thing clearly, but the ground was prepared by Americans themselves.

The US propoganda machine is the best in the world too and has influence on not only US media but also media in Europe and other west aligned countries. However, the majority of the world's population has risen above poverty and continues to develop themselves now and nobody in the world (except for Canadians, Europeans and others in that alliance) has interest in continued western and American hegemony.

With more access to information today, people are harder to fool and all of America's wars against terrorists, bad leaders, etc are now seen for what they've always been about - interference in another country's politics and policies to benefit America economically and maintain America's interests around the world. As you correctly pointed out in the case of Libya, countries realize that things always end up worse - much worse - when the US intervenes to "bring those people freedom". And for Americans themselves, they look at their own living situations in the US and wonder why their money is going to foreign leaders to fight wars that America loves to get involved in to fuel the war machine when their towns/cities at home are crumbling with outdated transportation infrasture and their leaders refuse to provide their people with the most basic of things such as health care.

[activeStick]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1756495928737824972

[Harry Lime]

It blows my mind that there is not a significant threat to displace Trump or Biden on either side. It's as if the aristocracy doesn't even feel like it's worth the effort anymore to make this look like a democracy.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I can easily understand it on the Biden side. He's already won once and the alternative is chaos and uncertainty. Worse, there is no obvious good option - there are no Barack Obamas out there waiting in the wings. No one remotely close. It'd probably be Harris, and who even knows how that goes.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I can easily understand it on the Biden side. He's already won once and the alternative is chaos and uncertainty. Worse, there is no obvious good option - there are no Barack Obamas out there waiting in the wings. No one remotely close. It'd probably be Harris, and who even knows how that goes.

Four years of planning time. Can the DNC be fired?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I just don't understand how some posters here are thinking exactly like the Democrats are. Always worried about the other side as opposed to what we in hockey say "looking after your own end, play my game etc"

You have Biden voters and supporters who are polling at historic lows, way below Trump during his Covid era and post January 6. Process that! Process that in hockey terms "A recent poll of Oiler and Maple Leaf fans show that they feel their teams are garbage, bottom feeders" Management thinks they are winning the Cup.

We have Democrats talking about the seriousness of electing Trump again but refuse to say that his opponent is weak.

We are suppose to be going into the biggest game of the year with everything on the line. Having the other side win would lead to catastrophic consequences for the team. Management decides to put me in net, Curves, who hasn't strapped on the pads since I was 12. That's the strategy here.

I get the hate for not wanting Trump, but what do people reasonably expect to occur here? If Trump wins, are Democrats going to waste everybody's time opposing him or will they do the honorable thing and resign in masses for allowing this **** up to occur ?? They don't deserve another nickel from American taxpayers in salary for allowing this to occur fully knowing this was a mitigated risk that could have been reduced by SOMEONE making an adult decision.

Many of us wanted to see Biden step aside and let someone younger and more charismatic become the nominee. But it didn't happen. What good does it do to cry and scream about it now? Biden will be the nominee and there's no changing that.

You want Trump to lose? Get behind Biden, and make the case to Americans why he's the correct choice for president for the next 4 years. That's the only way you can make the situation better now.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Itse

I think a part of is just the overall failure of the "War on Terror". So many wars, proxy and otherwise, and the Middle East is as bad as ever and Taleban rules in Afghanistan again, Libya is much worse off than it was with Gaddafi, etc.

A lot of Americans are tired of paying for long wars that either don't seem to go anywhere or actively make things worse. Propaganda has done it's thing clearly, but the ground was prepared by Americans themselves.

There are entire universes of difference between wars where the US invaded (Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, etc) and one where the US is helping an ally stave off an unjustified, psychopathic, barbaric invasion.

To even call US aid to Ukraine a "war" or "proxy war" are quite frankly misnomers. It is simply helping an ally defend itself.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

It blows my mind that there is not a significant threat to displace Trump or Biden on either side. It's as if the aristocracy doesn't even feel like it's worth the effort anymore to make this look like a democracy.

Why would they displace Trump? He's won the GOP nomination in February! That's unheard of in an open primary.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Why would they displace Trump? He's won the GOP nomination in February! That's unheard of in an open primary.

Because he is less popular in a general election, convincing Trump cultists to vote for Trump isn't their issue. Nikki Haley polls far better against Biden in a general.

Either side would have a virtual automatic with with a younger and in Trumps case less hated candidate. Keeping Trump off the ballot would be bad news for Dems, they need more Trump out there hanging himself.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Many of us wanted to see Biden step aside and let someone younger and more charismatic become the nominee. But it didn't happen. What good does it do to cry and scream about it now? Biden will be the nominee and there's no changing that.

You want Trump to lose? Get behind Biden, and make the case to Americans why he's the correct choice for president for the next 4 years. That's the only way you can make the situation better now.

do you want to eat a stale slice of bread or a pile of steaming ####? I wish cake ran this year but it didn't happen.

[Ped]

I don't think Biden is a particularly good candidate, but the bottom line is, Trump has shown us exactly who he is - multiple times a day, and that means it shouldn't matter who is running against him - the fact people can even contemplate voting for Trump for "reasons" shows the system is irrevocably broken.