So they weren't actual nazis despite the SS denomination, fought only Soviets, and Ukrainians was still recovering from the Holodomor and trying it's hardest to gain it's independence from Soviets. Add to this that Germany directly helped Ukraine in their fight for independence against the Bolsheviks in 1918 and Ukraine volunteering for the Nazis make sense. Germany was initially cheered as liberators
The bolded isn't correct, assuming you're talking about the USSR. The division fought in Slovakia to quash partisan activity and did the same in Poland.
And while they weren't necessarily Nazis themselves, they willingly joined to fight alongside the Nazis and risk their lives for their cause. It's not like we're talking about Ukrainians fighting to defend their homeland or soldiers who were forcibly conscripted here. Much of their activities involved killing partisans and suspected partisans in other countries at the behest of the SS. Comparisons to Finland don't make a lot of sense. And if Finns volunteered to form their own SS division to go to Norway or Denmark and fight there, they'd be reviled as well.
Now who knows when this specific guy joined the division. But the fact that they could introduce someone who "fought against Russia in WWII" and basically no one raised an eyebrow at first really doesn't speak well the historical aptitude of our elected officials.
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I stand corrected on the Slovakia part, I'm just bringing up that he joined the German side at the call from the Ukrainian Central Committee in the hopes of a free Ukraine, not to push the Nazi ideology.
There's little indication a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer was given a standing ovation, just a young Ukrainian that sided for what he believed what his best chance of a free country as an 18 year old. War is hell and some decisions are often taken that are seen 80 years later as wrong with hindsight that a young man may not have the luxury of having.
I stand corrected on the Slovakia part, I'm just bringing up that he joined the German side at the call from the Ukrainian Central Committee in the hopes of a free Ukraine, not to push the Nazi ideology.
There's little indication a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer was given a standing ovation, just a young Ukrainian that sided for what he believed what his best chance of a free country as an 18 year old. War is hell and some decisions are often taken that are seen 80 years later as wrong with hindsight that a young man may not have the luxury of having.
Well he’s had 80 years to figure it out. The fact he went to this ceremony shows that he is proud that he fought on the same side as the nazis at least, or worse is still proud of being a nazi.
Well he’s had 80 years to figure it out. The fact he went to this ceremony shows that he is proud that he fought on the same side as the nazis at least, or worse is still proud of being a nazi.
He's proud he fought for his native land, Ukraine. You can read his story here (you can have it translated to English).
The Führer immediately revealed his plans for Ukraine, liquidating the provisional Ukrainian government in Lviv and imprisoning Ukrainian leaders in concentration camps.
A new wave of arrests followed. It was easier to oppose the new enemy because: a) he was easy to recognize, b) he spoke a foreign language to us, c) he did not permeate our society with sexots, as the Muscovite did.
...
For the next school year, I moved to live in the Ukrainian Bursa on Raiska Street, where Professor Mykhailo Rebrik was the manager. In my sixth grade, out of forty students, there were six Ukrainians, two Poles, and the rest were Jewish children of refugees from Poland. We wondered why they were running away from such a civilized Western nation as the Germans.
Doesn't sound like he liked Hitler at all and also became aware of the plight Jews faced?
It's simply just not a black and white situation, but he shouldn't have been brought in and he should have declined the invitation.
Three months earlier, SS Galichina subunits perpetrated what is known as the Huta Pieniacka massacre, burning 500 to 1,000 Polish villagers alive.
It is unclear whether Zelenskyy knew that Hunka fought with the unit. In 2021, the Ukrainian president joined the governments of Israel and Germany in denouncing a march honoring SS Galichina in Kyiv.
In the April 9, 2008 issue of the Gazeta Polska weekly, an article about the massacre appeared. According to those persons who survived (four of whom were cited), the murderers were Ukrainian collaborators. All those who recollected the massacre (Emilia Bernacka, then 10; Filomena Franczukowska, then 20; Jozefa Orlowska, then 16; and Regina Wroblewska, then 6) claimed that the village was attacked by the Ukrainian troops, who murdered all Poles they managed to catch, including infants. The mentioned persons survived because somebody managed to open the rear door of a village church in which the murderers were massacring the Polish civilians.
Anyways, retracting any ambiguity I had after learning more into what the division did, regardless of personal motive he may have had to join. Good grief. They should not be celebrated.
It is important to separate the dumbassery of current politicians that should know better with our full knowledge of what the Nazis did and the actions of all kinds of people that supported Hitler in the 30's and 40's, including King Edward the VII and Charles Lindburg, it is tough for us to understand that prior to WW2 being an anti semite/racist was pretty much fine and most people didn't view countries starting wars as evil either, it made perfect sense for Ukrainian's to support Germany in the start of the war, they, and no one else either thought of the nazis as murderers or evil
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Lavrov also suddenly said, that Russia respects Ukraine's 1991 borders, that is with Crimea being Ukrainian, as long, as Ukraine abides its own declaration of sovereignty. In this declaration, he said, Ukraine "promises" to be neutral state and don't participate in military alliances, and also don't have nukes. As far, as I could google Ukrainian sources (lower link below), this claim is somewhat correct, although the language is a bit vague (or so is my understanding of Ukrainian). It says that Ukraine "intends" to be a neutral state, don't join military alliances, and also don't have nuclear weapons. It's not clear whether those words are legally binding.
Regardless, this is the first time some official from Russia, and direct subordinate of Putin no less, talks about respecting 1991 borders. I'm not sure if they realized they lost the war or it is some kind of diplomatic trick.
I feel like putting this guy on the guest list, and then outing him was a total Russian troll job. It was a mistake and he should have been vetted properly, but it is not the end of the world.
I feel like putting this guy on the guest list, and then outing him was a total Russian troll job. It was a mistake and he should have been vetted properly, but it is not the end of the world.
Exactly, and now we are hearing demands for the speaker to resign. Dont we have more important things to do in govt?
Apparently Russian officers who weren't getting paid sold key intel to Ukraine, allowing for the amazing success they had in crashing the officers meeting in Sevastopol.
After missing their anticipated salary payments, Russian officers decided to leak sensitive information about Moscow's Black Sea Fleet to a Ukrainian partisan movement. The intelligence later paved the way for a devastating missile strike on the fleet's headquarters in the occupied Crimean peninsula, Ukrainian media reported.
Ukrainian resistance fighters told the Kyiv Post in a recent interview that they managed to gather information about high-ranking Russian commanders from officers who were frustrated by Moscow's failure to pay their salaries on time. The officers were financially compensated in exchange for the information, which was then passed along to state agencies and reportedly used to plan last week's attack on the Black Sea Fleet's headquarters.
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It is important to separate the dumbassery of current politicians that should know better with our full knowledge of what the Nazis did and the actions of all kinds of people that supported Hitler in the 30's and 40's, including King Edward the VII and Charles Lindburg, it is tough for us to understand that prior to WW2 being an anti semite/racist was pretty much fine and most people didn't view countries starting wars as evil either, it made perfect sense for Ukrainian's to support Germany in the start of the war, they, and no one else either thought of the nazis as murderers or evil
I feel like a lot of other "it was different back then" arguments don't hold water today, so I'm not sure if this is any different.
Apparently Russian officers who weren't getting paid sold key intel to Ukraine, allowing for the amazing success they had in crashing the officers meeting in Sevastopol.
I feel like a lot of other "it was different back then" arguments don't hold water today, so I'm not sure if this is any different.
well it is because the Nazis hadn't killed 6 million Jews, how much do you dislike Bismarck, William Pitt or Teddy Roosevelt? they all waged war across the world, they were all pretty racist but none of them killed 6 million jews, the holocaust was so unprecedented even when the allies started to have evidence of it in 1943 they didnt believe it
Okay so, according to Ukrainian sources, this hit actually happened at the time of a high level meeting. They claim 34 officers dead (including that fleet commander) and 105 injured including "Alexander Romanchuk, a Russian general commanding forces along the key southeastern front line".
CONTENT NOTE: The video has some fairly detailed verbal descriptions of treating combat wounds near the frontline. It's probably not for everyone.
There's actually a first part to this interview, which has some Brandons early experiences, but it's mostly about his personal history. (It's quite interesting as background, this guy has a very checkered past, but he's not the storyteller Joe was.)
Last edited by Itse; 09-26-2023 at 05:44 AM.
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That looks like a corpse to me with the sunken features and the way his neck is bent. The chair behind him looks more like a pillow compared to the other chairs, and the flags behind him don't look draped the way the other flags look. They look like they are laying on the floor the way they look a little wrinkled compared to the other flag.
I am probably wrong because it seems ridiculous, but the picture does seem odd to me. They said they released a video, but all I can find are stills.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 09-26-2023 at 11:25 AM.
