Isn't it exactly what Israel did? 2 millions of Arabs, about as many as live in Gaza, live in Israel and are citizens of Israel. You know, that in Israel they have schools that teach in Arabic.
I mean a true (non apartheid) one-state solution or binational state would bring with it all of the similar marriages you see in a country like Canada.
Two national languages, the state itself is no longer identified as intrinsically Jewish (or Muslim) and becomes secular, full citizenship and granted rights for those living in Gaza and the West Bank, etc.
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Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
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Sure, they’re scared of Hamas and Iranian influence, and believe Gaza to be Israel’s issue to deal with, because Israel is the occupier and controls the vast majority of the border including the sea and the sky, and they have little interest relieving that pressure from Israel.
Can you explain why you think Egypt’s one border is worth repeatedly bringing up when Israel controls most other aspects of life in Gaza?
Why do you think that Israel is occupier and Egypt is not? Even Palestine president actually supports the blockade, is he an occupier too?
Do you believe, that reasons you provided can justify the blockade?
Egypt is being brought up because it is the only country, outside of Israel, that borders Gaza. Sure Israel controls more of Gaza life, hence Israel is being mentioned like ten times more than Egypt. Egypt is also a Muslim Arabian country, so one could expect them to, at least, accept refugees from fellow Muslim Arabian state..
I mean a true (non apartheid) one-state solution or binational state would bring with it all of the similar marriages you see in a country like Canada.
Two national languages, the state itself is no longer identified as intrinsically Jewish (or Muslim) and becomes secular, full citizenship and granted rights for those living in Gaza and the West Bank, etc.
There are two global trends that can help us:
1. It's getting way harder to keep ethnostates because of mixed marriages. My father is 100% Jew, and he married Russian woman. I also married Russian woman. My cousin is 100% Jew from New York and he married a Chinese woman. People mix much more than they used to even a hundred years ago. Most, myself included, are not interested in keeping pure blood.
2. People are getting less and less religious. The more we know, the more it's clear that there's no God. Or, at least, even if some intelligent creator existed, it is not even remotely close to how he is described on holy texts of any religion.
So in the end there will likely be a secular Israel state, with Gaza and West Bank in it, and Arabs being citizens of it too.
Why do you think that Israel is occupier and Egypt is not? Even Palestine president actually supports the blockade, is he an occupier too?
Do you believe, that reasons you provided can justify the blockade?
Egypt is being brought up because it is the only country, outside of Israel, that borders Gaza. Sure Israel controls more of Gaza life, hence Israel is being mentioned like ten times more than Egypt. Egypt is also a Muslim Arabian country, so one could expect them to, at least, accept refugees from fellow Muslim Arabian state..
Because Israel is and Egypt is not? Do you not know the difference between closing a border and occupation? You can pull a reference out of your hat justifying Israel’s use of white phosphorous on grounds that they didn’t sign some document but you don’t even know what an occupation is? I find that extremely hard to believe.
And no, Egypt’s blockade isn’t justified either. The blockade as a whole is still illegal. But they are also prepared to let aid pass through the crossing that was closed after Israel bombed it, while Israel shuts power to hospitals. In your mind, they’re equal. Bizarre.
Because Israel is and Egypt is not? Do you not know the difference between closing a border and occupation? You can pull a reference out of your hat justifying Israel’s use of white phosphorous on grounds that they didn’t sign some document but you don’t even know what an occupation is? I find that extremely hard to believe.
And no, Egypt’s blockade isn’t justified either. The blockade as a whole is still illegal. But they are also prepared to let aid pass through the crossing that was closed after Israel bombed it, while Israel shuts power to hospitals. In your mind, they’re equal. Bizarre.
Below is what occupation is, by definition. I don't see how Israel is the occupier of Gaza, based on this definition. Regarding cutting power in hospitals, it's a move to get hostages released. It's strange that in 17 years of government, whose goal is to destroy Israel, Gaza didn't bother to build a power line with Egypt. Putin, at least, took measures to ensure Russia could operate under sanctions.
Below is what occupation is, by definition. I don't see how Israel is the occupier of Gaza, based on this definition. Regarding cutting power in hospitals, it's a move to get hostages released. It's strange that in 17 years of government, whose goal is to destroy Israel, Gaza didn't bother to build a power line with Egypt. Putin, at least, took measures to ensure Russia could operate under sanctions.
Regulations: Art. 42
Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised
Israel controls the borders, sea, and sky, including the flow of goods, water, and electricity, which absolutely constitutes an occupation, and there is zero debate about their occupation of West Bank.
Israel controls the borders, sea, and sky, including the flow of goods, water, and electricity, which absolutely constitutes an occupation, and there is zero debate about their occupation of West Bank.
1. It's getting way harder to keep ethnostates because of mixed marriages. My father is 100% Jew, and he married Russian woman. I also married Russian woman. My cousin is 100% Jew from New York and he married a Chinese woman. People mix much more than they used to even a hundred years ago. Most, myself included, are not interested in keeping pure blood.
2. People are getting less and less religious. The more we know, the more it's clear that there's no God. Or, at least, even if some intelligent creator existed, it is not even remotely close to how he is described on holy texts of any religion.
So in the end there will likely be a secular Israel state, with Gaza and West Bank in it, and Arabs being citizens of it too.
So rather than each group calling the other group out to go #### themselves, what they should all be doing is ####ing each other instead.
It's a blockade. Last week it turned siege. Controlling borders, skies and sea does not constitute an occupation. You need boots on the ground being authorities, to satisfy definition of occupation. Still, it's not like blockade is any better. It could be argued, it is worse. Gazans now are probably wishing the occupier should have never withdrew.
A territory is launching thousands of rocket attacks on your communities for years. You have the means to interdict cargo shipments into the territory. What do you do?
That same territory launches a mass attack over the border, overrunning entire towns and deliberately slaughtering hundreds of civilians. The leaders vow they will wipe you out. Then they hide among civilians. What do you do?
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It looks like Israel is also already fighting militants in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, and the West Bank. There's also been major Israeli attacks from the coast. Hamas has also broke onto Israeli territory several times. They ran into stronger resistance this time:
A territory is launching thousands of rocket attacks on your communities for years. You have the means to interdict cargo shipments into the territory. What do you do?
That same territory launches a mass attack over the border, overrunning entire towns and deliberately slaughtering hundreds of civilians. The leaders vow they will wipe you out. Then they hide among civilians. What do you do?
I have no idea.
Just wanted to mention it as it’s a valid stance that more people should consider…
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I have nothing to back this up, but it wouldn't surprise me if asking palestinians to evacuate south is more sinister than a ground assault. Maybe larger scale bombing or even the use of a tactical nuke.
I have nothing to back this up, but it wouldn't surprise me if asking palestinians to evacuate south is more sinister than a ground assault. Maybe larger scale bombing or even the use of a tactical nuke.
Then how about not post baseless fear mongering?
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The global community has an opportunity to literally fix this problem once things officially calm down. A mediated and concrete settlement with BOTH sides literally winning and losing significant aspects of important things to them.
Is there an opportunity for peace with Iran and Russia working very hard to ensure that doesn't happen? Iran is behind Hamas. They supply the weapons and funds, which allow them to control the Gaza Strip. Unfortunately, the world hasn't been successful at stopping Iran from destabilizing Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Lebanon. What we are seeing in Israel/Gaza is tragic, but a small fraction of the suffering Iran has caused in those other countries. Then you've got Russia acting as some kind of chaos agent to further disrupt things.
I honestly don't see Russia or Iran changing their tune. Russia may become less involved, but only because they are running out of weapons, as they've found a closer group of innocent civilians to use their stockpiles of Soviet era weapons on.
A territory is launching thousands of rocket attacks on your communities for years. You have the means to interdict cargo shipments into the territory. What do you do?
I need to point that this is the reasoning Israel has used for 16 years to explain the blockade, that it's needed to stop the thing that just happened.
The problem with this logic is that it just totally failed.
The hard line politics did not succeed in protecting civilians, instead creating the circumstances for an attack of unprecedented size and ferocity.
The idea that you can stop the violence by destroying Hamas is extremely misguided, it's like thinking you can stop crime by catching all the criminals.
The extremism and hatred that creates terrorists is not created by Hamas, it's created by the living conditions of young people born into captivity with no hope of a better future.
Bombing "Hamas" will not help IDF "win". It's been tried again and again, bombardment has a very close to 100% failure rate as a strategy when used against a primarily civilian population like in Gaza. All it does is make it absolutely sure that Hamas doesn't need to run any recruitment ads for another generation.
This is the main problem with these kinds of hardline ideas. The morality of these tactics is kind of irrelevant in my books when they just don't work.
The killing will stop under one of two conditions:
- One side is genocided
- People on on both sides feel like they have a future ahead of them and the other side isn't trying to take it away, violently or otherwise.
Hamas isn't special. There are hate-peddlers everywhere, in Helsinki as well as in Gaza, and they will never go away. The reason people in Gaza respond to Hamas in large numbers isn't because they are muslim or stupid or "just animals" like I just heard a very emotional Israeli settler describe them in a news piece.
Yes, IDF needs to fight against terrorists in the moment too, but they have been going at it in a way that's kind of a guaranteed longterm failure. It's the lesson the West learned painfully in the "war on terror", in Afghanistan and in Iraq: as long as you are ready err on the side of killing civilians to get to your target, you will always create a new terrorist for every one you kill.
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