[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by zamler

Originally Posted by zamler

^^ I'm thinking drugs are involved.

Glass houses zamler

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bonded

There’s a balance. Am I glad there is a new arena, sure. However, I can hate the total screw job the city and province is taking to enrich a group of billionaires.

Perhaps they view it as more beneficial to the city as a whole than you do? Saying it's a screw job just doesn't seem to fair.

Also, they know it's unrealistic that the Flames will pay for an arena themselves in a city of this size. Personal views aside - that's just the core of it.

If the City (...and province with infrastructure) don't make this deal, the Flames just won't be here. We shouldn't be so arrogant in believing Calgary is some wonderful market that is unrivalled when it comes to its fanbase.

That's the reality of this all. Make a deal (like this) or say goodbye to the Flames. The idea that Murray would sell this team to a local investor who would keep the Flames here and build an arena is a pipe dream and disconnected from reality.

This deal has been how many years in the making now? I truly believe if yet another deal falls apart, that's it. We enter that darkest timeline.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by zamler

^^ I'm thinking drugs are involved.

Makes sense. It says Pepsi Free, not drug free

Maybe if I had some of what he’s having, he’d make sense

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Perhaps they view it as more beneficial to the city as a whole than you do? Saying it's a screw job just doesn't seem to fair.

Also, they know it's unrealistic that the Flames will pay for an arena themselves in a city of this size. Personal views aside - that's just the core of it.

If the City (...and province with infrastructure) don't make this deal, the Flames just won't be here. We shouldn't be so arrogant in believing Calgary is some wonderful market that is unrivalled when it comes to its fanbase.

That's the reality of this all. Make a deal (like this) or say goodbye to the Flames. The idea that Murray would sell this team to a local investor who would keep the Flames here and build an arena is a pipe dream and disconnected from reality.

This deal has been how many years in the making now? I truly believe if yet another deal falls apart, that's it. We enter that darkest timeline.

Counterpoint: Ottawa.

No shortage of interest to buy that team without any framework for a deal yet.

The premise is not that an alternative Flames owner would need to build the arena themselves. They could be a less ####ty partner and make a more reasonable deal.

But spending a billion to lock ourselves into another few decades of this buffoonery is totally awesome, and it must be pure craziness for anyone to consider anything beyond their emotional attachment to laundry.


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[Mr.Coffee]

Well, dunno if you know this about Edwards, but he doesn’t partner very well. In fact, not at all. In fact, it’s the strategic foundation from which CNRL operates.

Edwards and partner are like oil and water. This was always the way it was gonna go. Think about it.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Exactly. It’s pretty easy to be happy with all the cool stuff that comes with the arena and recognize the intangible benefits without fudging the numbers and pretending this is some economic windfall or good deal.

The deal sucks. It’ll cost more public money than it’ll ever return, while the CSEC can easily recoup their investment far easier. It’s corporate welfare. We can recognize that and still enjoy the thing when it’s built. Nobody has to pretend this is anything more than it is.

For me it's been the decade of thinking we were better than the folks up North and the deal they got. Unfortunately the sad reality is we're no better. Just another thing the Flames have managed to chip away, that quiet misplaced confidence that we were different than our neighbours to the North. No more rolling my eyes when someone from Edmonton goes on and on and on about their arena.

[Scary Eloranta]

If a Flames fan forum is divided on this, just imagine what the rest of the province is thinking. Is there any chance this thing ever gets off the ground? And we thought we had problems with this team on the ice?

We are truly cursed.


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[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

If a Flames fan forum is divided on this, just imagine what the rest of the province is thinking. Is there any chance this thing ever gets off the ground? And we thought we had problems with this team on the ice?

We are truly cursed.


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This is what I was thinking as well. First, not everyone in the province or city of Calgary are hockey fans or concert goers. Some of them might be for it, and some of them neutral, but the vast majority of those people are probably not going to like it. Then you have to consider that practically the whole city of Edmonton will be against it, plus Oiler fans in general who out number Flames fans, there is going to be a lot of opposition.

If I lived in Calgary, I would be all for it, but I wouldn't be holding my breath at this point, especially if the UCP loses. Most polls show the NDP in the lead, but it's close enough that it is hard to predict. Some poll results were released today, but likely don't reflect yesterday's news. It will be interesting to see how the next polls look.

https://crowdwisdom.live/politics/al...on-polls-2023/

[Demzy84]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It's money that could go towards more pressing needs like healthcare capacity issues though, right?

You're not going to pretend that isn't true, are you?

Let’s be real here, healthcare funding is not the issue, how Alberta Health is structured is the issue. They are getting $24.5B in funding but from what I hear from nurses who work in the hospitals they are so top heavy with management that little trickles down to the front line workers

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Demzy84

Let’s be real here, healthcare funding is not the issue, how Alberta Health is structured is the issue. They are getting $24.5B in funding but from what I hear from nurses who work in the hospitals they are so top heavy with management that little trickles down to the front line workers

If I'm not mistaken Alberta has the lowest healthcare administration costs in Canada.

So you've been misinformed.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

https://twitter.com/trevortombe/stat...993691140?s=12



So you if you support a permanent 2.4% property tax hike in perpetuity so that the Flames get an arena then that is great. Some folks will be against the permanent tax hike though.

Sorry. I read the thread. This is a tweet and there is no substance behind this tweet

If you want to demonstrate or replicate the calculations, we have a place to start discussing.

What is the ‘flow value’ he is talking about, and how does he factor in the 5%? That’s the IRR used to convert the longer term cash flows to a calculated NPV. If you can explain this guy’s assertion, then we can start to assess its merits.

[Poster]

The Flames were never going to privately finance their arena.

It wasn’t one of the options available to the city as the considered how to replace the current facility. This is not how pro sports works and Calgary clearly needs a new arena if they want to host Professional grade events like the NHL or Concerts.

I just want the team to say that.

I want the politicians to say that.

Then they will have my support.

Just be honest, don’t treat us like we are stupid and then get back to work creating value for the city, like we hired you to do and in the case of the Flames, just shut up and be respectful of the citizens who you are fleecing.

In the meantime, I think the billionaire, the politicians, the management and the players are all grifters.

[Poster]

By the way. Economically, why didn’t we just build it all our self and charge the Flames rent?

Also have details about development rights been released? I recall in earlier versions the Flames were trying to lock up a lot of that for themselves.

Anyhow, why not just charge rent to the Flames? I’m guessing becuase then they will threaten to leave if they can’t access all that revenue?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sorry. I read the thread. This is a tweet and there is no substance behind this tweet

If you want to demonstrate or replicate the calculations, we have a place to start discussing.

What is the ‘flow value’ he is talking about, and how does he factor in the 5%? That’s the IRR used to convert the longer term cash flows to a calculated NPV. If you can explain this guy’s assertion, then we can start to assess its merits.

I guess we just have to go with your non-sensical math over the calculation of one of the more prominent economists in Canada.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Counterpoint: Ottawa.

No shortage of interest to buy that team without any framework for a deal yet.

The premise is not that an alternative Flames owner would need to build the arena themselves. They could be a less ####ty partner and make a more reasonable deal.

But spending a billion to lock ourselves into another few decades of this buffoonery is totally awesome, and it must be pure craziness for anyone to consider anything beyond their emotional attachment to laundry.


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Ottawa’s owners want to sell.

Murray has given zero indication of any desire to sell.

Could be this/could be that, it doesn’t matter what could be. It’s what is and what isn’t.

This is the deal as has been agreed by the parties involved. If it falls apart for one reason or another, I’d expect there to be some really #%^**+ news to follow.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Poster

By the way. Economically, why didn’t we just build it all our self and charge the Flames rent?

Also have details about development rights been released? I recall in earlier versions the Flames were trying to lock up a lot of that for themselves.

Anyhow, why not just charge rent to the Flames? I’m guessing becuase then they will threaten to leave if they can’t access all that revenue?

You answered your own question correctly

[Yoho]

I love all the “mean girls” from the political threads trying to convince everyone in the main Flames forum that getting a new building is bad.

Lol stay in your high five each other threads.

“We need a new addictions Center instead”

No people that actually go to work and contribute to this city are allowed to have something nice to have, be entertained, and show off.

Not everything has to be about placating to ground zero with healthcare ect..

No one asked me about building library’s and no one’s asked you about building an arena so I think we are good.

[Looch City]

Arenas > Libraries

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t get it . Sorry

Why is it a crock?

The lame deflection that it's not money for an arena, it's money for infrastructure. Bull####. Own it. There wouldn't be a deal without that money, so it's essential to the arena. Stop weaseling around. It also sounds like there is provincial money for the *cough* "community arena" which is really just a practice surface for all the CSEC teams. Is that "infrastructure only"?

Like, do people really buy this stuff? Look at the facts, not the politicians lying lips.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I love all the “mean girls” from the political threads trying to convince everyone in the main Flames forum that getting a new building is bad.

Lol stay in your high five each other threads.

“We need a new addictions Center instead”

No people that actually go to work and contribute to this city are allowed to have something nice to have, be entertained, and show off.

Not everything has to be about placating to ground zero with healthcare ect..

No one asked me about building library’s and no one’s asked you about building an arena so I think we are good.

Let's leave aside the provincial money that should never have been given.

I work and contribute to my city and I can't afford to go to the new arena.
So I remember posting about Edmonton's arena party out of bitterness and jealousy.
Billionaires getting the rink and area, for millionaires to play in, for the well off to enjoy. Meanwhile the government wants me to pay out of pocket for medical care.

hopefully you can appreciate the feelings of those who work but will rarely if ever get the benefit of the place.