The Walking Dead TV show only thread- Part II ***See spoiler rules in first post***

[Alberta_Beef]

The audience is stupid because they may believe Began would believe a guy will do stupid things for a piece of ass? Almost every stupid thing I have done in my life was because of #####, it is very believable.

[undercoverbrother]

I think the worst part about this is during the Zombie Apocalypse you only get Atari?

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

The audience is stupid because they may believe Began would believe a guy will do stupid things for a piece of ass? Almost every stupid thing I have done in my life was because of #####, it is very believable.

Assuming this is in response to my rant, that's not what I said at all.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Yamer

The writers just made a very critical mistake. Either they just assume the audience is stupid, or they think the audience is stupid and that we will just swallow their ####.

So we're to believe Negan truly believes Dwight because he completely buys that he is subservient, while anyone with a brain can connect the dots that Dwight let his wife escape because he still cares for her. Of course he still cares for her...Negan had to burn half his face off because she still cared for Dwight. And Dwight was willing to risk EVERYTHING by escaping before (that first time we saw him and his wife in the confrontation with Darryl).

.......

I have to disagree. I think Negan's behaviour is completely in line with what we've seen of him so far. He's far from a perfect or even logical leader. Negan seems to put his own games above rational decisions all the time, and Dwight was simply playing into that.

For example, Negan should have killed all of Rick's crew. They'd already taken out dozens of his men. He, however, believes that his grandiose execution of two of them is going to turn them into his happy worker bees. We're talking about a world where people habitually see people eaten by zombies.

This is Negan's flaw. His ego and his love of breaking people take precedence above all else. In this episode, we see Dwight's intelligence in recognizing that and taking advantage of the situation.

The episode also fits with what we've seen of how the Saviors work. Things don't always work logically there either. Innocents are taken out all the time. The culture of fear is precedent above any kind of level of justice.

[ClubFlames]

There was no need for a Eugene The Coward episode. Waste of time.

[Red Potato Standing By]

I don't know if he is a coward or is just good a selling it to have people drop their guard.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

I don't know if he is a coward or is just good a selling it to have people drop their guard.

I reckon he has gone back to being the Eugene he was when we first met him. He is playing the part that be believes needs to be played.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

There was no need for a Eugene The Coward episode. Waste of time.

I don't really think the episode was so much about Eugene as it was about the Saviors. We got a much better look at the inner workings of the organization, and its cohesiveness.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I actually can't tell if he's fallen to the dark side or not. Eugene is the perfect candidate for succumbing to Negan's tactics, but he's also a pretty decent liar. Wonder what happens to those pills...

[Wormius]

The best thing to do would be to give it to whichever wife that Negan is sleeping with for the night. Most likely Amber since she wants to die.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Most likely Amber since she wants to die.

Does she? Or did the other two say that so Eugene would make the pills?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I actually can't tell if he's fallen to the dark side or not. Eugene is the perfect candidate for succumbing to Negan's tactics, but he's also a pretty decent liar. Wonder what happens to those pills...

Yeah...I thought that was really well done. I honestly think that Eugene is lying. The moment he reverted to his PhD persona and started making up fake credentials I got the impression that everything was for show. Eugene instantly recognizes that his only way to stay alive is to show that he has value. He reverts to his BS story about being a genome scientist, and recognizes that Negan's crew is made up of dolts who aren't capable of calling him out.

I also found it odd that Eugene took far more pills than he needed. He takes the entire supply, despite only needed 1 blister pack. Seems like he's up to something bigger.

Overall, I thought this was a great episode. So much better than the Mad Max garbage from last episode.

[ClubFlames]

He did take a bunch of pills from the lady who was giving them out, maybe he makes a lot of those suicide pills and gives it to half the people there and it turns out to be a mass suicide "Jonestown" style.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Does she? Or did the other two say that so Eugene would make the pills?

She was hitting the bottle of wine pretty hard and seemed to be unraveling. Not a lot of depth to her character but it seems plausible.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by blankall

I also found it odd that Eugene took far more pills than he needed. He takes the entire supply, despite only needed 1 blister pack. Seems like he's up to something bigger.

I took from that scene that Eugene was seeing where he stood with Negan. The fact that no harm came from that action must have gave him a pretty good sense of security, and an ability to come up with a plan if he's going to be playing both sides.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

She was hitting the bottle of wine pretty hard and seemed to be unraveling. Not a lot of depth to her character but it seems plausible.

Also all the previous scenes with the wives have shown the same.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Also all the previous scenes with the wives have shown the same.

True, but the other 2 wives were trying to get her to slow down so it did appear as though she was in a worse spot mentally

[blankall]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I took from that scene that Eugene was seeing where he stood with Negan. The fact that no harm came from that action must have gave him a pretty good sense of security, and an ability to come up with a plan if he's going to be playing both sides.

Good point. He knows that Negan is not running a tight ship now, and those directly beneath him have room to operate as long as they don't interfere with / get caught by Negan directly.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by blankall

I have to disagree. I think Negan's behaviour is completely in line with what we've seen of him so far. He's far from a perfect or even logical leader. Negan seems to put his own games above rational decisions all the time, and Dwight was simply playing into that.

For example, Negan should have killed all of Rick's crew. They'd already taken out dozens of his men. He, however, believes that his grandiose execution of two of them is going to turn them into his happy worker bees. We're talking about a world where people habitually see people eaten by zombies.

This is Negan's flaw. His ego and his love of breaking people take precedence above all else. In this episode, we see Dwight's intelligence in recognizing that and taking advantage of the situation.

The episode also fits with what we've seen of how the Saviors work. Things don't always work logically there either. Innocents are taken out all the time. The culture of fear is precedent above any kind of level of justice.

That's a really fair point. Of course, if that's the case, Negan's risked undermining his method and efficacy should Dwight betray him. You might again argue that is his flaw at work, but to me it really undermines the character, who I would prefer to think is brilliantly evil and not just arrogant and shortsighted...because if he's the latter, it is really hard to believe he was able to build this empire.

And therein lies a major part of the fear that he commands: power. Rick & co. didn't just relent because Negan was brutal. Apart from Maggie, they all realized how absolutely powerless they were. They had no control, and even if they didn't submit it wouldn't matter. Negan commanded a power to destroy them all if he chose to, but he didn't. Because he was practical.

Even so, maybe you're right, and this is a hint to his downfall. To me it seems inconsistent with the fear and presence they are trying to generate with Negan in the show, to a point of almost betraying it, and it was a little disappointing. Negan becomes less and less frightening and credible as a villain the further we get in the series, and I wouldn't say the same for other major villains in other major shows.

Switching gears, I have really come around on the Eugene character. Josh McDermitt is really nailing it. I don't think I could have sat through an entire Eugene episode 2 seasons ago.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Yamer

That's a really fair point. Of course, if that's the case, Negan's risked undermining his method and efficacy should Dwight betray him. You might again argue that is his flaw at work, but to me it really undermines the character, who I would prefer to think is brilliantly evil and not just arrogant and shortsighted...because if he's the latter, it is really hard to believe he was able to build this empire.

And therein lies a major part of the fear that he commands: power. Rick & co. didn't just relent because Negan was brutal. Apart from Maggie, they all realized how absolutely powerless they were. They had no control, and even if they didn't submit it wouldn't matter. Negan commanded a power to destroy them all if he chose to, but he didn't. Because he was practical.

Even so, maybe you're right, and this is a hint to his downfall. To me it seems inconsistent with the fear and presence they are trying to generate with Negan in the show, to a point of almost betraying it, and it was a little disappointing. Negan becomes less and less frightening and credible as a villain the further we get in the series, and I wouldn't say the same for other major villains in other major shows.

Switching gears, I have really come around on the Eugene character. Josh McDermitt is really nailing it. I don't think I could have sat through an entire Eugene episode 2 seasons ago.

If they plan on keeping the Negan storyline going beyond this season, this could be part of a plan from Negan to find the defectors within his organization. Even if the character won't be around much longer, Dwight's wife escaped and helped Daryl escape, so he probably assumes that he has more people under him who think of betraying him. He rules with fear and knows it, maybe he felt he needed to raise the stakes for defection discipline since the iron clearly wasn't dissuading everyone.