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Old 11-19-2023, 10:38 AM   #10101
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Why? In the long run, the creation of new money is roughly equal to Real GDP growth + productivity growth + inflation.

So if money creation was insanely out of whack with growth, then inflation would be unsustainably high over the long term, but that hasn't been the case for decades.

As for "infinite money printing", the pace has slowed significantly since the '70s and '80s. Canada's M2 annualized growth:

1970s: 14.8%
1980s: 10.6%
1990s: 3.3%
2000s: 7.4%
2010s: 6.4%
2020s: 8.8% (this is dragged up by the one-time influx during COVID and is dropping every month)

If you think adding 6-7% to the money supply equates "printing money into infinity" then you really don't have a very good handle on economics.
I’d be interested to see your source on this thank you.
https://betterdwelling.com/over-1-in...two-years-ago/

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...ney-canada.asp

Last edited by Yoho; 11-19-2023 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 11-19-2023, 10:45 AM   #10102
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I’d be interested to see your source on this thank you.
On the numbers? I calculated the numbers myself based on Bank of Canada monetary aggregates (M2 gross):

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=1010011601

But here are the M2 gross numbers themselves:

January 1970: $31.8B
January 1980: $126B
January 1990: $346B
January 2000: $478.8B
January 2010: $975.7B
January 2020: $1.81T
August 2023: $2.44T

And I was high on the 2020-23 number; it's actually 8.4% annualized.
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Old 11-19-2023, 10:48 AM   #10103
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On the numbers? I calculated the numbers myself based on Bank of Canada monetary aggregates (M2 gross):

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1...pid=1010011601

But here are the M2 gross numbers themselves:

January 1970: $31.8B
January 1980: $126B
January 1990: $346B
January 2000: $478.8B
January 2010: $975.7B
January 2020: $1.81T
August 2023: $2.44T

And I was high on the 2020-23 number; it's actually 8.4% annualized.
I’d count again.
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Old 11-19-2023, 10:50 AM   #10104
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You know how annualized growth works, right? If you add 20% in year 1 but only 2% in years 2 and 3, you end with about 7.5% annualized growth. That's what happened with monetary growth in Canada. It was a big one-time jump, and then it has been significantly below normal since, which has dragged the annual rate down significantly.

If you bought a stock that went up 25% in a year and then was flat for 9 years, would you consider that unsustainable growth? Of course not, that's only a 2.3% CAGR.

And stop reading Better Dwelling. It's trash designed to rile up desperate people.
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Old 11-19-2023, 10:55 AM   #10105
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I’d count again.
I'm sorry you don't understand simple arithmetic or how to calculate a CAGR. People that don't understand those things are often fooled by exponential growth and believe that as you get higher on the curve that things are becoming more and more unsustainable because the numbers get bigger, when it's really just how growth works. Adding 5% to a $2T money supply is no less sustainable than adding 5% to a $100B one.
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Old 11-19-2023, 11:28 AM   #10106
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I’d count again.
Sure, you go first and show us.
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Old 11-19-2023, 11:32 AM   #10107
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I’d count again.

Awesome contribution.
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Old 11-19-2023, 11:36 AM   #10108
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Do you understand the difference between fiscal and monetary policy?
Probably doesn’t understand the difference between weather and climate either.
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Old 11-19-2023, 11:44 AM   #10109
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LOL, always fun watching a brain dead idea get torn to pieces with facts.
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Old 11-19-2023, 07:08 PM   #10110
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Some pundits talking financial policies with the government.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1726420124213604510
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Old 11-19-2023, 08:46 PM   #10111
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Since Yoho is trying to frantically change the subject with another random drive-by tweet, I'm assuming he's got no intelligent response to opendoor. Classic Yoho.
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Old 11-19-2023, 09:35 PM   #10112
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Since Yoho is trying to frantically change the subject with another random drive-by tweet, I'm assuming he's got no intelligent response to opendoor. Classic Yoho.
“Frantically” random post that speaks exactly to the over spending of the government.
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Old 11-19-2023, 09:41 PM   #10113
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Yoho gets amnesia when he receives an absolute pulverizing by the smart people in the room. He doesn't defend, refute, or accept defeat. Just post another tweet to sow confusion and attempt to feign ignorance.

Responding to opendoor would be the classy thing to do, but we can't expect much from the guy who goes Mr. Magoo when the heat is on.
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Old 11-19-2023, 11:31 PM   #10114
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Michael Spavor

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Old 11-20-2023, 04:01 AM   #10115
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We can debate politics, fiscal policy, monetary policy and more all we want. Government's, corporations and individuals all need to get their own fiscal house in order. Financial matters isn't magic.

We have a very serious issue on our hands globally with the level of asset prices, speculative bubbles, corporate debt, government debt and a general lack of financial understanding amongst people as a whole.

Just because the people in charge at the central banks across the world are smart, financially asute people, doesn't mean they don't make mistakes. They have made a ton of mistakes. My concern is that WHEN the next financial crisis strikes extremely hard, and it's only a matter of time until it does, do central banks have the tools in the tool box to deal with it? Is the answer lower rates, more borrowing, more cars, clothing, boats, vacations and more? Or are we headed more towards a 1930 era depression of significant hunger and more?

Here is an excellent documentary highlighting a lot of the problems and how the people we trust in power, have made a mountain of mistakes. This is an excellent, well rounded documentary showing how we have gotten hooked on cheap credit and it's affects on the economy. This isn't some conspiracy filled show, this features some of the highest people in finance saying some very scary things about where we are.

I can't seem to get the link, but credit to Fuzz for finding one Canadian's can watch. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8j4fum


Last edited by curves2000; 11-20-2023 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 11-20-2023, 06:28 AM   #10116
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I couldn't get that Youtube link to work, I don't think PBS allows it in Canada. Here's another link.


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8j4fum
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Old 11-20-2023, 06:54 AM   #10117
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I couldn't get that Youtube link to work, I don't think PBS allows it in Canada. Here's another link.


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8j4fum

Thanks for this!! I am currently overseas in Greece and forgot how hard it was for me to track this down a while ago to watch in Calgary.

I love PBS, nobody can give me an answer why as a subscriber via my cable package, I am not able to watch their content on their streaming service or their website. Strange
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Old 11-20-2023, 09:53 AM   #10118
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Originally Posted by curves2000 View Post
We can debate politics, fiscal policy, monetary policy and more all we want. Government's, corporations and individuals all need to get their own fiscal house in order. Financial matters isn't magic.

We have a very serious issue on our hands globally with the level of asset prices, speculative bubbles, corporate debt, government debt and a general lack of financial understanding amongst people as a whole.

Just because the people in charge at the central banks across the world are smart, financially asute people, doesn't mean they don't make mistakes. They have made a ton of mistakes. My concern is that WHEN the next financial crisis strikes extremely hard, and it's only a matter of time until it does, do central banks have the tools in the tool box to deal with it? Is the answer lower rates, more borrowing, more cars, clothing, boats, vacations and more? Or are we headed more towards a 1930 era depression of significant hunger and more?

Here is an excellent documentary highlighting a lot of the problems and how the people we trust in power, have made a mountain of mistakes. This is an excellent, well rounded documentary showing how we have gotten hooked on cheap credit and it's affects on the economy. This isn't some conspiracy filled show, this features some of the highest people in finance saying some very scary things about where we are.

I can't seem to get the link, but credit to Fuzz for finding one Canadian's can watch. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8j4fum

Central banks only have a limited number of tools in their tool box - partially as a method of limiting their overreach.

One could argue the very few tools that actually works is interest rate manipulation. With our high interests rates right now, we are in a better position to ease downturns in the future than we were in 2008 when interest rates were already low.

Also, i just want to shout out Opendoor - not because of him taking Yoho to the woodshed, but because his information on the money supply was very informative!
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Old 11-20-2023, 01:15 PM   #10119
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Lol…Yeah I trust those numbers he regurgitated about as much as their CPI data.

https://thehub.ca/2023-01-24/trevor-...s-only-option/

Last edited by Yoho; 11-20-2023 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 11-20-2023, 01:26 PM   #10120
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Lol…Yeah I trust those numbers he regurgitated about as much as their CPI data.
Let me guess, though...last summer when the CPI was reported at 9 (or whatever level it was), you had no issue believing that dataset?
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